Re: [f-cpu] SUN server : hacking in progress

[Yann Guidon <whygee@f-cpu.org>]

hi again !

once again, i'm "blessed" with a collection of replies.
i hope i won't say silly stuff.

Carlos De Urresti Hannoh wrote:
> From: "Yann Guidon" <>
> > * I have an old Pentium 100 on an AT motherboard, but that's
> > a bit weak for what we need.
> The web would be on a p100 with 48 RAM .. is this world full of p100? :)
dunno :-)
but that's better than nothing, and it is a very well known platform,
all the kernel patches are tested for a long time ;-)

> > it's a very curious situation :-/
> > however, i hope that with other similar propositions,
> > we can build something.
> Yep and as Ben said:
> +------------------ WARNING ---------------------------+
> | The F-CPU Server may be slow but that is all we have |
> +------------------------------------------------------+
> It's better to start with something little than hanging until the heavy
> machinery comes into reality.

OTOH i have got a proposition for a SPARC, the only problem :
bandwidth quota of 4MB/day. that's only enough for the regression tests.

> > Carlos De Urresti Hannoh wrote:
> > > From: "Yann Guidon" <>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 5:05 PM
> > yeah, that's "late" ;-)
> my first commiment is to reply earlier ;)
not too much, please give me some time to build my plane ;-)

> > > Subject: Re: [f-cpu] meeting in Paris this evening
> > obviously, getting a SUN from SUN is not going to work...
> > who would "own" the machine anyway ? we have to find a trick.
> This "own" matter is what i was trying to explain when another project would
> contribute to the EDA's farm.. (explaning above).
ok.

i am in contact with (and member of) the french association
that represents the FSF here and i asked them 2 things :
 - how could they help us in the legal/financial side
 - Would they be able to "acquire" (dunno how) SIMILI.

these are only questions, and there are some meetings in France
in June, so we'll discuss it.

the FSF officially acquiring SIMILI from Symphony EDA Inc. would
be a wonderful thing :
 - everybody could use and enhance this good, simple and working tool
   which is in advance of any other existing GPL tool (for the
   beginner/end-user)
 - Symphony EDA would (still) provide commercial support and have a larger
   user base

if you listen to us, Richard,....

> > > > > From: boucli27 at altavista dot net
> > > > > Subject: Re: [f-cpu] Which machine to use
> > > > who is in charge of collecting the funds ?
> > > For a starting point we could relay over paypal and someone with an
> account
> > > in a US bank since wire transfer's fee are so high and even higer to
> send
> > > them as a money order. And then redirect from there.
> > i didn't understand ...
> sorry, what i tried to mean was: if we start to receive money from
> contributors
> those contrib would come hopefully from different contries.. and we may know
> must of the individual and small contributions from individuals are stopped
> because there isn't a "inexpensive" path to reroute the money to the
> organization. This is a main problem,for a solution  we could use a paypal
> account which accept credit cards from +60? countries and the sender isn't
> applied by any fee (only their banks fees for the "good bought", but no by
> sending the money) the receiver (we) does apply for a fee but it's minimal..
> can't recall but less than 2% for the monthly received money or something
> like
> that.. this isn't much as when you take a comparassion between converting
> the
> money in to a money order and then sending it trough a package companies
> that
> does accept valued papers..(i only know of fedex..ups or dhl don't apply at
> least from mex to usa.) This account most have a valid bank account at any
> USA bank where the money can be withdrawl and then send to europe.. or where
> it's needed.. this reduces the overhead fees of every individual sending
> money.
> Even some HOWTOs are now using this method..
> > > I agree.. maybe the workshop in HAL will also make this explote. ;)
> > sure.
> >
> > > >  - wait for new contribution proposals (so we can spread the workload)
> > > >  - ask for price lists and call for sponsors
> > > Looking for sponsors, explaining later on.
> > the explanation is the most difficult part... heck...
> i did explain :)
> >
> > > From: "Yann Guidon"
> > > Subject: [f-cpu] about the EDA server(s) [quite longuish]
> > > > I don't think that it should remain F-CPU specific and other
> > > > projects would benefit from that. As a rule of thumb, several
> > > > projects listed in the OpenCollector database can apply and
> > > > participate.
> > > Thinking in the future and assuming that the neutral EDA localtion will
> be
> > > sucessful; the other projects could start thinking in contributing
> > > "semi-sponosoring" with hardware (relocating their own facilities to the
> EDA
> > > localtion and not fulling giving the ownership to the EDA project). when
> > > this stage is reached: how will the
> > > neutral position will be managed.. or we won't accept semi-contributions
> > > from other projects?
> > i don't know... but a contribution is a contribution, i don't understand
> > what a "semi-contribution" is...
> semi-contribution.. would be like leasing us some machines.. some people or
> companies could offer high machines but not fullying giving us the control..
> so they do coperate with the project but they can retrive or apply policies
> over
> the work done with their machines..
> >
> > > > It is, on one hand, a matter of usefulness :
> > > > if what we do is useful, i don't see why we shouldn't prevent
> > > > other projects from benefitting from our efforts, as long
> > > > as they are not "passive users" (they have to help).
> > > I fully aggre, beside isn't this the purpose of the fcpu as the GNU has
> done
> > > until now? :)
> > As you understand, today, this is not the only reason why we need
> > other's contribution ;-)
> >
> yeap :/ huge movement most be done to be succesful.
> > > > B) Goal of the new organisation
> > > >
> > > > It must be defined when all the team members are present.
> > > ?
> > yeah, i mean : we can't decide before the team is created...
> > it will be adapted when people contribute etc...
> >
> contributions could destroy our use of policies.. this will tough since if
> they
> offer pretty good hw we would have to reject or what could be done to accept
> their policies (if the apply the semi-contribution scheme)?
> > > > It requires a clear, short and precise description of what
> > > > the organisation is, and is not.
> > > > The F-CPU project certainly suffers from the same problems
> > > > as other projects, so here's a first proposition :
> > > >
> > > > "
> > > > The goal of this project and organisation is to provide Free
> > > > Hardware developers with free online design tools, without
> > > > contraining him to buying anything or learn complex books.
> > > books? :)
> > yeah, you know, cut trees with expensive white pages...
> a those... ;)
> > > > The purpose of this project is to promote Free Hardware projects
> > > > and lower the entry effort for contributors. We want to
> > > > allow people to contribute without discrimination (either
> > > > monetary or expertise). The only constraint is that the
> > > > server users comply with usage restrictions and rules,
> > > > related to security and licencing (all the developped files
> > > > must be protected by the GPL).
> > > This will be only functional over the own fcpu servers..
> > i don't think so. first, it will help for the recognition of
> > the GPL as a Free Hardware Licence. Second, it will be a
> > criterium for the choice of the projects.
> this can create fights in the future and even another organization going
> futher
> by stablishing themselves as hardware but using or creating a new license
> based
> on other actual sw licenses..
> 
> We haven taught by the past who easily people tend to leave a project or
> organization since they don't like or try to live with the former group..
> Of course starting up a new hw project with new licenses and another
> philosophy
> will be tough difficult as those sw groups..but there's a change of this
> specially when something is impossed..
> 
> Anyway.. if they don't like they wouldn't even join in first ..
> >
> > > > I can't take the responsibility of this project : the F-CPU and
> > > > other things are already taking all my time. I could however help
> > > > on punctual cases, such as setting up a HW emulator (i have a rough
> > > > experience in this era).
> > > In this moment i can only help with the sys admin area, since i need
> > > to learn a lot .. at least reading the manual helps me to research
> > > for specific topics
> > Any help is welcome ;-)
> >
> > > From: "Yann Guidon" <>
> > > Subject: Re: [f-cpu] about the EDA server(s) [quite longuish]
> > > > my short term todo list includes : cleanup of the Oekonux conference
> > > > files and preparation of files for HAL.
> > > Any 'public todo' list for HAL?
> >
> > everything is to be done :-)
> >
> > mantis.f-cpu.org should be up one day, it will help us
> > organising the project tasks more efficiently...
> I do see 2 months as a little period of time to work out HAL, is there
> anything
> that i can start to work with, right now? (or we.. the ones that are willing
> to help the pre-hal).
> >
> >
> > > From: "Yann Guidon" <>
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 4:46 PM
> > > Subject: [f-cpu] i should be sleeping instead of writing weird stuff,
> but...
> > > > It appears that the "first phase" of the EDA farm project could be
> > > > easily reached : we require a good athlon or P3 box with a large
> amount
> > > > of RAM, connected with a fast link to the net.
> > >
> > > I can add another machine for the farm but my aprox time for getting it
> is
> > > like 3 months starting to count after HAL :/
> > >
> > > But what will "farm" will actually mean aplied to EDA.. I'm not used to
> > > EDA.. We'll have each machine working on different tasks? or?
> >
> > well, with 'farm', i meant more something like a "pool" of machines,
> > available for doing work. Because of the potentially high heterogeneity
> > of these machines and their geographically spread locations, it
> > seems that the 'farm' word (that is close to "clustering") was probably
> > bad.
> >
> oki,; ) i was confused until now.
> > > Von: Yann Guidon <>
> > > Betreff: [f-cpu] f-cpu.org/index.html updated
> > > Datum: Thu, 24 May 2001 03:21:53 +0200
> > > > hello,
> > > >
> > > > http://www.f-cpu.org
> > > > has been updated with some more acurate data
> > > > and a few new features. It's getting heavier,
> > > > a webmaster is still wanted...
> > > May i apply? :)
> > of course :-)
> > i hope that you have "some free time"...
> >
> < Subject: [f-cpu] f-cpu.de updated (at last !)
> < i can't do more, the help of webdesigners and website managers
> < is greatly apreciated...
> I'm here to work ;) and if "some free time" can't be applied we all know
> that
> we can make it real at nights.. oohhh.. i work at nights... ;) heh.. then
> over
> the sunny day light ;)
> >
> > > Orage.
> > > (Who do the work of @avanticorp.com at seul dot org) > Bad joke.. ;+>
> > :-)
> >
> > WHYGEE who's loosing some hair on the head, wondering if it is natural...
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > *************************************************************
> 
> From: "Yann Guidon" <>
> To: <f-cpu@seul.org>; <andreas.romeyke@web.de>
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 7:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [f-cpu] CVS for F-CPU created
> 
> > it looks good, however, i'm still a real beginner
> > and my w95 box at home (dialup) doesn't have aCVS client.
> http://cvshome.org/dev/codewindow.html
> ;)
> or
> http://www.wincvs.org/
> > WHYGEE
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> 
> From: "Yann Guidon" <>
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 7:52 AM
> Subject: [f-cpu] about the server(s)
> 
> > hello,
> >
> > * the MP670 is not going to be working before ... some time.
> > if it even works. but Lionel and me are doing our best. help is welcome.
> 
> How can we help? By providing hardware?
> 
> >
> > * Lionel told me that there would be a new SUN BLADE with more
> > power and RAM, in the future, somewhere around 15000 or 20000FF
> > (something like $3000). It is probably enough horsepower and we
> > can probably gather all the money.
> Good, just try to evade the USiie since those processor are almost a toy.
> especially if they will be used to heavy proccesing.
> the clone of celeron on sparcs.. :/
> > The REAL problem is :
> > holly shit, there is no Free Hardware Fundation to help us.
> > i don't want to spend the rest of my life managing this stuff.
> > Volunteers and help are welcome, as usually.
> As the project gets bigger and we have been in touch with ideas that aren't
> the
> mainstream of the fcpu some members of the fcpu should start different orgs.
> in this case we only need one, that in a way will also regime the EDA
> resources.
> etc..
> ?
> >
> > * Remember, i had bought a laptop when i was at META SYSTEMS.
> > is is badly configured (PCMCIA is buggy), there are other
> > problems, but it's a PIII Celeron with 160MB of RAM.
> > Although the HDD can't draw more than 10 or 11 MB/s
> > in bursts (swapping processes will be rather slow),
> > i can dedicate it to the project.
> > ....
> > ....
> > ....
> > It is not a web or mail server.
> mine will be available in short term to be used as web location and even
> imap.
> > WHYGEE
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> From: "Yann Guidon" <>
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 7:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [f-cpu] SUN server : hacking in progress
> 
> > hi !
> >
> > Jeff Davies wrote:
> > > On Saturday 26 May 2001  1:14 am, you wrote:
> > > > Jeff Davies wrote:
> > > > > What type is it yann?
> > > >
> > > > SUN SPARC MP670, iirc, with one CPU board (6CPU ???) and only 64MB
> > > > RAM (all 32 slots are populated with 30-pin SIMMs...)
> > > Are you going to keep Solaris on it, or try to put linux on it.
> > seems that Lionel wants to put Linux, because he wants to include
> > the machine log in his SPARC HOWTO :-) He told me that Solaris
> > won't work past v2.4.
> >
> > > I'd suggest leaving Solaris since it works,
> Avoid as a plague at old machines ;>
> Even a Sparc 10 with 196 MB RAM runs kinda slowly with Solaris 2.6
> > "leave" it ? there is no HDD inside the CPU box,
> > and the 2 HDD ("storage") boxes work with difficulty,
> > the university tried to install BSD so i presume that
> > any previous OS is flushed.
> they knew about the plague :p
> >
> > > and is so similar to
> > > linux in any case. There is somewhere on the web a pile of gnu software
> > > precompiled for Solaris (including gcc and libc etc obviously).
> > but i doubt that Solaris is available for free...
> $0 ;)
> >
> > > There is a package management system built into Solaris (a bit like
> > > rpm). So you just download the Solaris packages, and then
> > > install them like RPM.
> pkg_add -device filename ;)
> > > Jeff Davies
> > WHYGEE
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> From: "Lionel-Wolf-Eric Bouchpan-Lerust-Juery" <>
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [f-cpu] SUN server : hacking in progress
> 
> > > > precompiled for Solaris (including gcc and libc etc obviously).
> > > but i doubt that Solaris is available for free...
> > >
> > You can order the media kit for $75 + s&h the bad
> > news is that you cannot get Solaris 4 or Solaris 5.
> > They even provide most of the GNU utils you need.
> For the first time they include built-in GNU compiler in Solaris..8 ;)
> 
> Before 2001 CE it wasn't posible to get Solaris 8 for "free", you had to buy
> the media or even sign a "agreement" with Sun for the sources and compile
> them at home (at no cost). When I checked Sun's website around March they even
> offer a new modality where you can download the 4 isos of the media (doesn't
> include bonus cds) only by filling a survey.. They changed their politic ;) at first
> they were saying that putting a cd online would be a tremendous waste.. guess
> they realized that people are getting better connections .. or at least some..:/
> 
> Anyway.. i found this:
> 
> ///
> http://www.sunhelp.org/pipermail/rescue/1999-November/001393.html
> [SunRescue] SunOS greater than 2.5 on MP670?[SunRescue] SunOS greater than
> 2.5
> on MP670?
> From: James Lockwood lockwood@ISI.EDU
> 
> On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, Max Trefonides wrote:
> 
> > Hi, I heard somewhere that it was possible to run a more modern OS on my
> > MP670, does anyone know how to do this?  I would like to run Solaris 7,
> > but there's that old adage of people wanting ice water ...  Is this
> > possible, or was I misunderstanding?
> 
> Support for the 4/600 officially ended at Solaris 2.5.1.  You can run 2.6
> or 7 (and even Solaris 8 beta), but there are some limitations:
> 
>   The SM100 modules will not work.  It's SuperSparc/HyperSparc only.
>   The VME bus will not work.  It's sbus only for expansion.
>   It's totally and completely unsupported.
> 
> Use adb to comment out the halt after the call to iam_ss600 in the kernel
> startup routine.  More details are available in the list archives or via
> Dejanews.
> 
> -James
> 
> ///
> 
> So, leaving the machine a Sun OS would be a waste of resources.. expecially
> when you think out of Solaris 8 that needs at most 68 MB just for starting
> up.. when a full installion has been done.. that java.... arrg.. ;)

Lionel wants to use Linux on this.

however i'm too lazy and i prefer to finish my brand new RC plane
instead of running around the university to get the authorisations...

geez, since Epoxy glue and Depron appeared, things are changing...

WHYGEE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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