[kidsgames] BOUNCE kidsgames@smluc.org: Non-member submission from [DonnaParker <donnap@sta.adelphia.net>] (fwd)

[Kidsgames Project Coordinator - Jeff Waddell <jeff@smluc.org>]

Hi all, please see Donna's message below, she IS subscribed but not from
the address she emailed it from, this closing of posts to subscribers only
is generating too much extra work for me and prevent legitimate posters
from getting through in a timely manner, if it doesn't abate soon, I'm
going to open it back up and we will all just have to ignore the spams and
vote with our delete buttons when they happen.  Sorry for the
inconvenience I thought closing it would be best, but I'm beginning to
rethink that....

-- 
Jeff Waddell
jeff@smluc.org

Kids Games Project Coordinator
main website at http://smluc.org/SIA/kidsgames/

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:19:49 GMT
From: owner-kidsgames@smluc.org
To: owner-kidsgames@smluc.org
Subject: BOUNCE kidsgames@smluc.org:    Non-member submission from [Donna
    Parker <donnap@sta.adelphia.net>]   

>From jeff@smluc.org  Wed Mar 22 16:19:45 2000
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:19:21 -0500
From: Donna Parker <donnap@sta.adelphia.net>
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To: kidsgames@smluc.org
Subject: Re: [kidsgames] a Mom's eye view
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10003212222150.31290-100000@family.wadsoft.com> <38D872CE.BC7B5F82@airmail.net> <00032206431600.19888@localhost.localdomain>
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I am also an 'end user'  and we have a windows free house ;-)

> > > Windows=easy

I don't find tracking down what ever caused the last crash and
reinstalling windows and
all your software as part of your monthly routine, easy.
I am one to install something new and try it on a regular basis.
I never could do this with windows with out corrupting some other
program.

> > > Why do my kids play windows games? 

Because that what they are taught by TV and peers who use windows.
My daughter is 9, she has a redhat system. 

> > > The linux games are much much harder.

Linux games are pretty straight forward. If you have a problem it
doesn't take a lot of
effort to find it. There has been a way to export what ever errors I ran
in to with my
system and usually a recommended solution.  Ranging from OE (common with
me) to hardware
trouble. (also common since I change things often)
Windows programs don't really tell you why something doesn't work and I
have run in to
many walls and had many 'blue screens of death' in my many years at the
keyboard.
(my first computer was a vic20) talk about hard....
I am so glad to finally have a computer that will tell me what is going
on.

> > * If you go out and spend $50 to buy a Loki game for Linux,
> >   it'll install and run just as easily as the corresponding
> >   game under Windoze.

I agree.

> It can't be any worse to distribute a game as a RPM or DEB?

That also takes added time from someone, and you don't really have to be
a programmer
to create RPM or DEB packages. 
My next learning project....

> listen to the lady with an open mind,  she is on your side
> and she, and others like her are your "customers", they are going to decide
> whether linux is forever second tier or if it becomes mainstream.

I don't know what most people in the linux community want but I
personally think
its better to read a little about what it is you are installing on your
computer.
Unfortunately I do know that most of the population could careless about
learning.
They want everything done for them. Now it seems that if you have to
read anything
to install something then its too hard.
And to complain about something that is free, makes absolutely no sense
to me.
What is that old saying? 'anything worth having is worth working for'
???
Well, I have found that its much easier to follow instructions, and make
sure you have
all the 'requires' before you try to install something, than to put up
with all the
blue screens and reinstalls that come with windows. not to mention the
cost involved.


> > > My husband (Jeff
> > > Waddell) spends hours trying to download and set-up these
> > > games for us.  It is a royal pain.  Many times we don't have
> > > the right library or we need to upgrade.  Some have even
> > > crashed our system.  We only have a slow old copper phone
> > > line and all of this takes forever.

I would be interested in what qualifies as a crashed system.
Aside from hardware problems I have had a program or two crash a console
and have to telnet
in and fix it. But in those cases I could uninstall them and everything
was right back to
normal. With windows its almost impossible to completely uninstall a
program with out causing
a problem for something else.

> > The problem for me (as a programmer) is not in getting the basic
> > ideas.  Writing the code is a huge investment in time and effort,
> > producing artwork, audio, etc, etc is still more.  Contributing
> > suggestions for games doesn't really help me all *that* much.

Ideas are a dime a dozen. But programmers with free time ??? ha! not
going to find many
of those.  Its hard enough to get one away from a project long enough to
eat dinner..
Games are not usually top priority here, though he helps me when I get
truly stuck on
something. it usually ends up being something simple that I overlooked.


> Ahhh, now this is the real problem.  It takes lots of time and teamwork to make
> a full blown commercial game whether win' or lin',  so how do you get a bunch
> of independent (you wouldn't be in linux if you weren't), progammers and such
> to work on a project over the long haul with out promise of payout in the end
> (assuming GPL'd) and with a purpose to work together in a certain direction?
> Linux's flexibility seems to work against it here.

hahaha.. tell them it CAN'T be done.


> I am not a programmer, but I applaude all those who contribute to
> linux and the games that are out there.  I am an end user who sometimes wonder
> why I spend so much time getting things to work in Linux.  It is a challenge, a
> different feeling than 'doze and I do love the O/S.

I have found that as time goes on it takes less time to get things
working.
For those that don't want to learn there are always RPMS. Though there
is usually
a wait involved if you want those.
Why do I spend time on it?
I do it because I want to better myself by learning to do more than just
point and
click. I want a stable OS that doesn't crash at the drop of a hat.
I want programs written by people that do it because they enjoy it. Not
by someone that
wants my money. I want to share what I learn with others. I want my
child to know there
is more to computers than pretty pictures and noise. I want my child to
use her computer
as an educational tool. Not just a toy.
Boy it seems like I want a lot... But look around the linux community..
Its all there...

Linux is going to be around a while.
So, I guess what we should be doing instead of complaining is ask ours
selves what can we
do to make it move faster? 
Set a goal of learning something new each week, and maybe in time we can
provide some
meaningful contribution.

Donna Parker


ps. an after thought...

We have a private irc server here and I have been playing with tcl
scripts for bots
for our parrot group. (for entertainment) and I ended up putting it on
our family
channel too.
I don't know if any of you have thought of this but my daughter has a
ball conversing with
the bot. I am still learning tcl so this is a bit slow but we are both
having fun.
You can make the bot a teacher of sorts too.
This is a very simple thing to do but it takes time. and you have to
watch them and see what
they think the bot should do and add things daily.
You can start with a basic AI script so you can see how things are done,
then read about it
and create your own.


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