----- Forwarded message from "Roy M. Silvernail" <roy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ----- From: "Roy M. Silvernail" <roy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:48:57 -0400 To: cypherpunks@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [arma@xxxxxxx: Re: Wikipedia & Tor] User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.8 [yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir] > ----- Forwarded message from Roger Dingledine <arma@xxxxxxx> ----- > > A potential for cooperation is the proposal below for authenticated > > access to Wikipedia through Tor. I will not speak to any particular > > design here, but if Wikipedia has a notion of clients trusted to post > > to Wikipedia, it should be possible to work with them to have an > > authentication server that controls access to Wikipedia through Tor. > > As I understand it, Jimmy is hoping that we will develop and maintain > this notion. We would run both "halves" of the Tor network, and when they > complain about a user, we would cut that user out of the authenticated > side. A non-good idea, as it goes against what Tor is all about. The problem to be overcome here really has nothing to do with Tor, as such. > Wikipedia already needs this sort of thing because of AOL IPs -- they > have similar characteristics to Tor, in that a single IP produces lots > of behavior, some good some bad. So Wikipedia understands that the transport layer isn't to blame, yet they persist in asking for changes in the Tor transport to address the problem of malicious users? *groan* > (One might argue that it's hard for Wikipedia to change their perception > and learn about any good Tor uses, firstly because good users will > blend in and nobody will notice, and secondly because they've prevented > them all from editing so there are no data points either way.) That's not the perception they need to change. They need to realize that if an avenue for action without responsibility exists, someone will use it. Wikis get defaced all the time *without* AOL or Tor, because the philosophy allows anyone to edit. It is that philosophy that is in error, not the transport layers used by the vandals. Wiki, as someone mentioned to me in a private mail, is the SMTP of web publishing; it doesn't scale well in the presence of large concentrations of assholes. > In summary, I'm not too unhappy with the status quo for now. Tor needs > way more basic development / usability work still. In the absence of > actual volunteers-who-code on the side of Tor _or_ Wikipedia to resolve > the problem, I'm going to focus on continuing to make Tor better, so > down the road maybe we'll be able to see better answers. Roger gets it. The Wikipedians don't. -- Roy M. Silvernail is roy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, and you're not "It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFT SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss http://www.rant-central.com ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org";>leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
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