Re: [pygame] pygame is a disgrace

[Luke Paireepinart <rabidpoobear@xxxxxxxxx>]

Jer Juke wrote:
> Yeah, you heard me. Normally I wouldn't feel any need
> to pick out some random library and state how awful I
> think it is. But this is not "some random library". It
> is the "standard" game library for a most beautiful
> language known far and wide for it's power and easy of
> use, both when it comes to the language itself and
> it's libraries.
>
> The fact that Python is generally blessed with truly
> magnificent libraries everywhere is what makes Pygame
> stand so out. Pygame is in absolutely no way
> magnificent or even slightly pythonic. It's just a
> goddamn SDL wrapper.
And WxPython is just a goddamn WxWindows wrapper... same with TkInter,
same with pyGTK, pyKDE, PyQt, etc.  And that's just gui frameworks.
The long and short of it is:  GUI toolkits need to be as fast as 
possible, because they just
display data that is calculated elsewhere, and you want as much cpu 
power as possible
to be in the calculations.
Therefore, any serious one would be a python binding to a C++ module.
it's not a disadvantage that it's a wrapper.  If it were written in pure 
python it would be much more complicated,
not to mention all of the 'reinventing the wheel' that would go on.  SDL 
is a good library for low-level access.
>   Using the name Pygame for this
> abhorrent library is an atrocity. It should be called
> PySDL, and make it more obvious to the python
> community that Pygame is yet to be properly created.
>   
Ah, yes, let's rename it back to what it was originally named.  
Brilliant solution.
Pygame is the continuation of pySDL, with extra features that make it 
not an exact wrapper of SDL,
so the name pySDL is less accurate.
> But that's not the worst part. PySDL (what you all
> call Pygame) is actually a very useful library. It
> does what it does QUITE WELL! It's perfect for
> creating higher level libraries. BUT PYGAME DOESN'T
> EVEN MANAGE TO BE PYGAME. Yes, I am talking about the
> fact that even half a year after the official Python
> 2.5 came out, Pygame still does not EXIST FOR THIS
> PLATFORM.
Binary installs are very different than a lack of support.
The newest version of pygame works on YOUR PLATFORM almost definitely,
although i can't be sure because I don't know WHAT PLATFORM you have.
Like Bob says, STFU and go compile it yourself if you want it so badly.

Same with lots of other open source projects, when pygame's not a 
development version it will have binaries.
But that's provided as a service to you; it's not requisite from the 
authors' point of view.

>  I can sympathize with taking a month to
> compile some new binaries. Developers do after all
> have other things to do. Even a couple of months is
> acceptable. But SERIOUSLY, a team of people that
> maintain THE STANDARD F*CKING GAME PACKAGE USED BY A
> GAZILLION OTHER PYTHON PROJECTS but can't make one
> required update in the time-span of ONE HALF YEAR is a
> disgrace.
And which developers are we talking about that need binaries in order to 
use pygame?
Any hands? No?  hmm, curious.
So if you're too inept to make the source work for you, use the 1.7.1 
version
with python 2.4.  It's forward compatible, so don't worry.  Anyone who 
manages to install 1.8 will be able to run your programs.
>  No one cares if you are in the process of
> adding all sorts of awesome new crap to Pygame. Do you
> guys even have any idea how many python modules use
> Pygame for one reason or another? Until you actually
> have Pygame 1.8, COMPILE A GODDAMN 2.5 VERSION FOR THE
> OLD PYGAME!!
>
> How about some honesty? How about replacing "we needed
> an extra few weeks" on the pygame site with "we are
> not able to adequately maintain this package. new
> maintainers needed"?
>   
...
> I know whoever maintains pygame aren't "paid". They
> don't "owe" anyone anything. But in my opinion, these
> people are a disgrace and a detriment to python game
> development efforts on the whole.
>   
I can hardly imagine what terrible experience must've befallen you to 
make you this adamant about the issue.
Did you try to compile it but you couldn't get it to work?
Cry more, noob.
Your comments are not productive.
You lose 5 internets.

To be completely honest,
I agree with you, that it'd be nice if someone took the time to compile 
the binaries.
But your complete and utter lack of etiquette, tact, or common sense is 
staggering.
Did you expect everyone to rally behind you and have a big renaming and 
compiling effort initiated?
Our perception of your intelligence and our opinion of the merit of your 
argument increase in direct proportion to how
well you can hide the fact that you're irritated, and how well you 
perform that basic, everyday task of not placing expletives throughout
your writing or speech.  The inverse is also true.
Therefore, in both categories, your score is lackluster.

hope that helps,
-Luke