[schoolforge] [Fwd: Reply re thank you]

[Doug Loss <drloss@suscom.net>]

David, this bounced.  I think I subscribed you as david@iteachnet.org;
should I change that to david@iteachnet.com, or something else?

-------- Original Message --------
From: David Bucknell <david@iteachnet.com>
To: <dloss@seul.org>, <schoolforge-core@schoolforge.net>
Subject: Reply re thank you


I'm resending this because I want to see some concrete plans made.
Again,
I apologize if you already got this. Mail tangles.
==
Re: [schoolforge] Thank you and agenda items
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:13:46 +0700
From: David Bucknell <david@members.iteachnet.org>
 To: schoolforge-core@schoolforge.net, Doug Loss <drloss@suscom.net>
Reply to: david@members.iteachnet.org

 Ok, so far there's agreement that a monthly press release is a good
idea.
As
I am already looking for news from the projects, I could easily be the
collector of submissions for the next release. I propose that we plan
for
and
post a new press release on Tuesday February 5th, just under a month
since
the first announcement.

Blue Edu will be on there and, of course, k12LTSP and Mimerdesk will,
too.
>
Re Media Contacts:
>
> <http://seuldat.seul.org/cgi-bin/media/medview.pl>  It is password
> protected. Before posting the userid and password here I'd like to here
> from others if that's a good idea or not.

Well, I wasn't trying to send out a press release. I just wanted to know
if I
was duplicating addresses or add/ask to have them added.

> > Re this mailing list: any hopes of aliasing it to the schoolforge.net
> > domain?
>
> That's already done.  schoolforge-core@schoolforge.net is the primary
list
> address, although schoolforge-core@seul.org also works (since SEUL is
> hosting the list).


> > What about having a schoolforge list that isn't restricted to member
> > reps?
>
> I think that's a good idea.  I'd like to move some (perhaps all) mailing
> list traffic from the seul-edu list to such a general schoolforge list.
At
> SEUL/edu we try to run a general mailing list for everyone, but because
> we're one among many projects I think there may be some who feel that we
> compete with, rather than complement, them and therefore set up their
own
> mailing lists.  Having many similar mailing lists mitigates the
usefulness
> of all of them because the discussions tend to be among small groups of
> people rather than among wider communities.

I know you've invested a lot in seul-edu, all of you. Only you can
decide
whether to change it and its focus. That said, you may have had the
experience I have where two projects and two lists compete and both
suffer.
The new project never takes off for lack of support from the old and the
old
loses focus because its focus isn't clear. However, if you would just
like
to
let schoolforge-relevant discussion take place on seul-edu for the
near-term,
then I think that would be fine. Then, this "core" list would have a
clearly
organizational role.

> > *We should ask of our members to make sure they've got one of the
[logos]
and the
> > link on their Web sites.
>
> I think you mean the Schoolforge member graphics, right?  We can use
Matt
> Jezorek's graphics (Matt, could you post links to those?) or the ones
> Felipe designed to tie in with his puzzle logo on the Schoolforge
frontpage
> (Felipe, could you post links to _those_?).  We should also think about
> that frontpage logo.  Felipe has done excellent work setting things up,
> including designing the initial graphics.  We have always talked about
> having a logo design contest for Schoolforge though, both as a way to
get
> the best graphics we can and as a way to increase public awareness in
who
> we are and what we're doing.  Do we want to run such a contest?  If so,
how
> should we go about it?

At this point, I think we should let both Matt's and Felipe's graphics
be
used and let them live a while. They've put in some time and done a good
job.

However, Felipe, himself, mentioned some possible problems with the logo
(penguin); perhaps we can use a contest to raise a little excitement in
March
as part of the press release, and then we could announce the winner in
April
(having completed the process before that, I imagine?).

By the way, the text in/beneath the header ought to contain the word
"free"
to show that we are a bridge between the free and open philosophies.

*Re Multi-lingual Web site:
>
> As Felipe said, it may be difficult to keep these in sync.  It's worth
> investigating, though.

I propose that we work on the site until next month's press release and
then
set a moratorium on changes for a month and ask for translations. After
that
we can always ask for translations of press releases.

> > As for our tasks, I propose, in addition to a monthly press release,
the
> > following "agenda" items:
> >
> > *Should this discussion be taking place on the seul-edu list instead,
> > except for voting?
>
> No.  In my opinion, seul-edu was used for the initial discussions about
> setting Schoolforge up because it already had a large number of members
> from other groups subscribed to it.  Now that Schoolforge is
operational,
> discussions about maintaining it are properly done on this list.
Although
> mailing list membership is currently just those people designated as
> representatives of their groups and a few other people who are
maintaining
> the website and databases, the archives of schoolforge-core discussions
are
> available and readable to anyone who wants to do so.  Roger Dingledine
also
> has mentioned the possibility of allowing anyone to subscribe to this
> mailing list, but only allowing the designated representatives to post
to
> it.  That's a possibility worth discussing.

I am for one of two things: using seul-edu for open discussion of
schoolforge
matters as most if not all members (and supporters) are on that list, or
creating a new list such as discuss@schoolforge.net. I am not interested
in a
two-tiered lurkers and posters list.

> > *PR: I hope we will work toward a common pr package that members and
> > supporters
> > can take with them to conferences. If of interest, then I suggest that
we
> > discuss what this might consist of exactly.
>
> I think this could be a very useful idea.  In addition, I'd like to see
a
> set of documents and whatever other material seems useful created for
the
> use of Linux user groups and other community organizations that want to
try
> to get open resources used in their local schools.  If we can provide
some
> sort of open resources in schools advocacy and support training, we may
be
> successful beyond what we currently expect.

Then this could be one of our first goals, after the press releases (I
don't
see that there need to be two packages, just one that could serve those
interested in helping schools and also those looking for help). I think
I
can
contribute, but am not prepared to oversee its creation. I would hope
the
product, again, would celebrate the resources of community members.

> > Extras for down the road:
> >
> > *Software project hosting
> > You may remember my fixation on the sourceforge.net software. I think
we
> > are missing an opportunity by not moving all hosting of educational
apps
> > to schoolforge. It's what people expect.
>
> Currently, SEUL is doing this on a case by case basis.  One of the
problems
> with Sourceforge is that while there are very many projects hosted
there,
> but great majority of them are just ideas of one or two people that
never
> amount to anything.  For our credibility I think it's necessary that we
be
> selective on what we host.
>
> I'm not sure if I like the idea of Schoolforge hosting projects or not.
As
> you say, it's what people probably expect from the name.  However, once
> Schoolforge starts to host any native content, we inevitably set up a
> two-tiered organization.  On one hand you have member groups and what
they
> do, and on the other hand you have Schoolforge-hosted projects.  I think
it
> would be unavoidable for such a thing to occur.  I'd prefer to keep
project
> hosting to one or more of the Schoolforge member groups, such as SEUL,
KDE
> Edutainment, etc.  That way, Schoolforge stays as a hub connecting the
> actual content providers rather than becoming one itself.

As you know, I support member empowerment. However, as much as there are
many
sites that do not take off on sourceforge, by being so available and
open
also has its benefits. It's known everywhere, even outside of free/open
circles. seul-edu has Linux in its name but its actions are broader than
Linux. Schoolforge would clearly attract _all_ educational apps and
would
make the task of publicizing them, and bringing those looking for apps
to
them, easier. In this case, although seul and savanah and ofset etc
exist,
it
would be much better to ask them all to support schoolforge hosting
because
none of them can claim to have the draw that schoolforge would.

If it came down to no support for schoolforge hosting, then I would feel
the
name were not taken advantage of adequately. The challenge/need here, in
my
view, is to create some excitement about app development specifically
for
education. So whatever happens, I hope we raise the vitality level and
openness/attractiveness of existing options or seek hard to combine
them.
If
we were to work only with existing projects, then what if, on
schoolforge
pages, we took the seul-edu app index one step further and listed a
means
of
finding places to host new projects as well as an index of where each
existing project was hosted? And what if we also included specific
instructions for hosting at each available host? "This host accepts
projects
of x,y or z character and here's how you apply"?

I would think this would maintain the independence of each project but
fit
schoolforge's name as well as its hub-like mission.

> > *Curriculum/course project hosting
> > Likewise, you may remember my complaints and then submission to the
wiki
> > as a course/curriculum building instrument. I do think that wiki
(which
> > won't work from behind most MS-enabled-disabled firewalls because they
> > strangely disable 8080 ports as well as ssl) is useful, and it may be
the
> > way, but I'm still stuck on setting up a matrix of common school
format
> > and then asking people to set up projects to build opencontent parts,
> > such as geometry 1 for average high/secondary level students, or
English
> > for 7th graders/year 8's/13 year olds. In fact, I'm building it now.
If
> > you're interested, let me know.
>
> Again, I think this is best done by one or more member projects.
Ok.  As I say, I'm going to think of something and share it with
whatever
the
appropriate list is by the time I get a draft done.