Re: Discussion vs. consideration (of KDE/KIllustrator)

[Kevin Forge <forgeltd@usa.net>]

For once we have reached COMPLETE agreement.  This is the point at which 
intelligent people ( and I like to pretend I am one :) change the
subject.
Long Live Linux.  
Long Live GNOME 
Long Live KDE
Long Live SEUL
Viva la difference :)

Erik Walthinsen wrote:
> 
> (moving to seul-dev-ui)
> 
> > That will not happen with 100 Programers working on 5 projects that need
> > 30 Programers each.
> I assume you mean 5 projects with competing or overlapping aims?  That's
> why I want to get everyone (everyone!) talking, so overlap is minimized,
> inter-operation is assured, and directly competing projects can either
> share code, or merge.
> 
> > This can only be done if they have a large and powerful hurd of Hackers
> > working on the Code.  It is good the QT already exists so they are
> > aiming at a stable target.
> Right.  I'm just saying that if FreeQt can eventually be a complete
> replacement for Qt (or threaten to become so), we can then link *all*
> Qt-based apps against something free (if FreeQt threatens, Troll Tech might
> open Qt. else we use FreeQt).
> 
> > No.  Trying to put FreeQT on GTK seems like a good way to screw up both
> > with no real benefit to programers or users.  I.e. This sounds like
> > putting the empire state building on top of the sears tower to make it
> > taller.  The end result would be a huge pile of ruble :(
> You're probably right.  I guess it doesn't matter at the toolkit level, as
> long as the two look and operate similarly enough.  My only concern is that
> interfaces for two apps based on two toolkits might not be as configurable
> together as they would be if they were based on the same toolkit.  Rephrase:
> If we have some configuration wizard, in order to support both Qt and GTK
> programs, it would have to be twice as large in the backend, because the
> two toolkits use different configurations.
> 
> > This is basically comparing the theoretical function of a lib with the
> > actual capabilities of a robust and large desktop.  Not fare at all.
> It's the desktop environment I'm worried about incompatibilities with.
> >From what I hear, you must have KFM running in order to use many of the KDE
> apps.  If you run primarily GNOME, but need some function only provided by
> a KDE app, are you going to be forced to start KFM?  Seems a little dumb to
> me.  What I'd like to see is some way for the two to coexist as peacefully
> as possible, without these infrastructures getting in the way.  GNOME only
> provides libs, AFAIK, whereas KDE (so I hear) requires an actual process to
> be running.  Each GNOME app is monolithic in its function, allowing a GNOME
> app to run under KDE with no extra support beyond stuff in /usr/lib.
> 
> > The Gimp however fits right in on my KDE Desktop and looks like it was
> > written for the project.  This is all end users really care about.
> If, at the toolkit level, the two look close enough, then I have no
> problems with using both (assuming FreeQt works).  But if mixing KDE and
> GNOME apps becomes a pain as described above, we're stuck providing full
> environments for both desktops, which means porting KIllustrator to GNOME
> (if KIllustrator, as its name suggests, utilized the KDE infrastructure).
> 
> > Actually I don't think switchout Libraries and emulators are important.
> If they can coexist otherwise, no, they won't be needed.
> 
> > just a little inter app communication and a universal clipboard.
> Inter-app is where it gets messy, as stated above.  If they use different
> protocols (IIRC GNOME and KDE are going to use different DnD protocols :( )
> then things start to suck badly.  If GNOME and KDE both utilize CORBA
> extensively, that problem all but goes away.  Are there plans to CORBA-ize
> KDE?
> 
> > The way to achieve this is for the GNOME people to talk to the KDE
> > people and make sure the apps are similar enough on the back end.  I.e.
> I believe something along these lines is already happening.  There is a
> gnome-kde list, and I assume KDE did as suggested and created a kde-gnome
> alias for it.  I don't know if that's active, perhaps I should sign onto it
> and check it out.  If the two end up compatible at the level we need, then
> I say use them both!
> 
> > I really like KRN ( the KDE news reader ) but I would prefer if the
> > GNOME news reader were substantially different in appearance and
> > function.
> > However I would like for them to share a common news cache and file
> > format.
> > Are the benefits of this clear ?
> Yup.  This is where CORBA can help, if both desktops utilize it
> appropriately.
> 
> > There is no real problem with running multiple Libs on a single desktop
> > in Linux ( thank god for memory protection and true multitasking ).
> :-)
> 
> > Where can I get info on running GTK ?
> www.gnome.org, and www.gimp.org for just GTK.
> 
>      Erik Walthinsen <omega@seul.org> - SEUL Project system architect
>         __
>        /  \                SEUL: Simple End-User Linux -
>       |    | M E G A            Creating a Linux distribution
>       _\  /_                         for the home or office user

-- 
"Through the firewall, out the router, down the T1, across the
backbone, bounced from satellite, Nothing but net."