Re: Development tools

[Roman Suzi <rnd@sampo.karelia.ru>]

On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, thi wrote:

>Brian writes:
>
> > I'd recommend focusing on a set of software implementation goals, without
> > imposing burdensome restrictions on how those goals are to be met.

I was not speaking about restrictions! I  was  just  asking  to
monitor visual development tools as well. Because visual  tools
can ignite edu-ware development in schools better than anything
non-visual! It was so when HyperCard came out!

But  of  course,  the  tools  must  have  good  scripting   and
interfaces to other programming environments.


On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Douglas Loss wrote:

>>btw, i agree w/ your position: it is better to think both top-down and
>>bottom-up simultaneously, than to overemphasize one or the other.
>
>I agree with thi on this, although I don't think multimedia tools (of which
>there are quite a few; just not ones designed for occasional use by people
>not schooled in their use) are necessary for the administrative stuff we've

This list is not for administarative stuff only, is it?

>I talked to Stewart Allen (the author of VisualTcl) a while ago about
>extending VisualTcl to become such an authoring system.  He wasn't averse to
>it so long as whatever was done was folded back into the core VisualTcl
>development tree, which is GPLed.  VisualTcl is written entirely in Tcl/Tk,
>so if there's anyone interested in going in this direction contact Stewart.
>You can find his email address on the vtcl website at
><http://www.neuron.com>.

VisualTcl is very hard to use. Tools I was concerned about must
have much less features showed to beginner user  and  scripting
must be clarified. Probably,  event  handling  must  be  remade
somehow too.

On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Douglas Loss wrote:

>>unfortunately, your analysis is correct and post-mortem.  interest has
>>waned already.  thus, the background chatter (where developers express
>>their personal preferences).
>>
>>what is the goal selection process, btw?  is it open to modification?
>
>I think and certainly hope that this is incorrect.  This mailing list is
>barely a month old.  Are developers so impatient that they want to start
>throwing code at a problem before it's even properly defined?  I doubt it.  I
> suspect they're waiting for the description that we talked about earlier to
>be posted, so they can see what needs to be done and how to go about doing
>it.

My proposal was asking for some small targets. I  am  not  into
administrative stuff as I am not interested in it.

>administrative software seemed to grab the attention of a number of people it
> became the primary focus of discussion.  This doesn't mean that other
>possibilities aren't of interest; this group should be wide enough for
>multiple sub-projects.  If there's something you'd like to discuss and
>assemble a group of us to work on, go for it.  I'm sure your comments won't
>fall on deaf ears.

I think, edu-ware is of more long run interest, along with  but
not instead of admin stuff.

In fact, edu-ware is even more on demand - just search dejanews
and you will get frequent questions  'what  edutainment  I  can
install on Linux for my son/daughter? Is there KidPix? etc...'


On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Jan Hlavacek wrote:

>> I don't like to see any bloatware for  Linux!  Yes,  multimedia
>> programs   are   huge.   But   this   must   be   because    of
>> video/audio/photo data they manage, not the  bloatness  of  the
>> code.
>
>I don't have any extensive experience with visual tools,  but it is my
>impression that the programs created with them often lack
>customizable interface.  For me,  customization is very important.  I
>think it is one of the strenths of Linux.

Hmmm... It depends on the tool. Good multimedia doesn't have to
be customizable  as  it  presents  an  artist's  view  of  user
interface. Good tools usually provide many ways to make GUI.

>> Can somebody from this list (better NOT developers  themselves)
>> provide ideas for small projects, that is programs, which could
>> be made by professional programmers at leasure or by  beginners
>> with equal (and quick) satisfaction?
>
>One thing I can think of right now (amof, I have been thinking about it
>for a while) is a simple geometry program.   Good start would be just
>compass and straightedge constructions,  with nice interface,  easy to
>use.  That should be fairly simple.  Later,  other stuff can be added.

BTW, I do remember something like this exist for DOS and
is made by DJGPP - 32 gcc clone for DOS.

It is like 'Geometers Sketchpad' (for Mac).

I vaguely remember it had 'Dr.' or 'Doctor' in the name...

I think, if we find authors, we could easily port  their  GPLed
program to Linux.

If I find it, I will let you know how it is called and
authors contacts.

BTW, it is good idea: lets look also onto edu projects made for
DOS by DJGPP - they (except  for  graphics  level)  are  easily
portable to Linux, IMHO.


Sincerely yours,
Roman A. Suzi

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