Re: [f-cpu] License issues GPL/LGPL and Juergen Goeritz' SoC

[nicO <nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com>]

Michael Riepe a écrit :
> 
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 12:14:09AM -0400, nicO wrote:
> [...]
> > And it will be more simple to add it into a SoC. Whishbone is great but
> > we need read-modify-write cycle, and i don't know if Wishbone do it.
> 
> It does.  At least the documentation says so.
> 

So that's good and split transaction ?

> [...]
> > You think only "pc" and it's socket. In which other product could you
> > change the main processor ? "Pc" is an old fation to do a system. Think
> > of embedded market (cars(30%-50% of the electronics industrie market in
> > the futur !), train, plane,...), think of PDA, handel PC. That's the
> > future, not PC or workstation ! Pc industrie are declined and devoted to
> > wintel god and it won't change. X86 word make a course of Mips, ARM word
> > the course of Mips/Watt, i propose the courses of the Mips/euros.
> 
> No, I don't think "PC".  But I think "workstation" and "server" -- they
> all have CPU sockets, usually, whether they use Intel CPUs or SPARCs,
> MIPS or PA-RISC, Alpha or PPC...
>

I don't think that we play in the same playground. That's a minor
application for f-cpu.
 
> > > The only solution I can see is a 2-chip approach: make an external
> > > WISHBONE interface and put the proprietary stuff into another chip.
> > > That's no longer an SoC, of course.
> > >
> >
> > And you lose all the benefit of it ! All future product must be very
> > compact, with reduiced power consumption and cheap. So SoC are
> > obligatory to reach that goal. For me, f-cpu should be include in
> > proprietary chip. You want to change the physical chip. So nowdays,
> > physical chip are remplaced by IP. So you could replace IP by another
> > one (or the same but with different parameters, or an other cpu if you
> > use C code). When you create a SoC it's the same that build a PCB in
> > 80's but now it's on silicon die instead of epoxy.
> 
> Not really.  All the PCBs I've seen used 100% proprietary components.
>

Arrrghhhhh! [sorry:)] Never forget that GPL world only apply on thing
that could be duplicated at no cost, only (soft, and IP)! Fcpu apply
only for IP not the chip, never ! To produice it we need partners to do
it, and they need to earn money (yes, a little bit ! bad world ! ;D). 
 
> > A SoC is so specialised ! So there isn't any interrest to change the
> > chip. It's a complete system so you could always create a compatible
> > chip with a complete different SoC. Imagine a mp3 producer, there is so
> > many manner to make it. You could do it with dedicated HW or with a DSP
> > or a powerfull RISC cpu, or with many little cpu.
> >
> > I hope a convince you.
> 
> I absolutely don't mind if somebody builds an F-CPU based SoC.
> As long as users can get the complete source code under GPL ;)
>

I think that you forget that produice a complet chip cost a lot of
money, a lot ! Do you think that a compagny will take 6 month to
produice a chip that a direct concurrent could only use 2 month, because
of the open source ? GPL was written for software in mind. They want to
spread this kind of software, and make some attractive clauses (for
example, we can not stole your code). 

I want that fcpu will be wide spread. Patches aren't free in hardware,
it's called a metal fixe and cost some millions dollars... that's not
the same risk for compagny than with linux. So we need to give something
to the compagny. IBM help linux so it can sell machine so what about
hardware.

nicO
 
> > Ps: This night, i think about the american people...
> 
> I painted the background of my homepage dark this afternoon...
> I hope I won't have to paint it pitch black.
> 
> --
>  Michael "Tired" Riepe <Michael.Riepe@stud.uni-hannover.de>
>  "All I wanna do is have a little fun before I die"
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