Re: gEDA-user: a note from a novice user

[Igor2 <igor2@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

<snip>

>
>Also, the folks who say "use emerge foo.bar" or "apt-get baz.woof" to
>install don't understand that the real problem is the complexity and
>lack of coherence of the components in gEDA.  Yes, you can do "emerge
>geda", but what about PCB?  How is the totally ignorant user to know
>that he also needs PCB?  And ngspice?  and gerbv?  This is our problem
>to fix.  

I really don't want to generate flame, I write this in hope it would be
constructive. 

For the above question: when I type apt-get install geda, besides the
libs, it would install: geda-doc geda-gnetlist geda-gschem geda-symbols
It also gives suggestions and recommendations. Without copying the full
list: geda-utils geda-gsymcheck geda-examples geda-gattrib gerbv

So long story short, in some modern distros, the user has the chance to
get tips/suggestions about what he would need.

And I think the problem should be split at this point: at such a system,
it should be assumed that the user knows what he is doing, probably this
why he choosed that system and not something more 'user friendly'. We
should assume that he knows how to use emerge or apt-get and that he reads
what packages apt-get suggests. I know these kind of user is the minoroty.

For the majority, it's a good idea to have an install. I agree that it
would be hard to write one that works for all distros and is up to date
while distros are changing. Exactly this why i suggest to split users and
write the install program for only those who use a system that lacks a
package system that can handle the situation. This would limit the number
of distros a bit, like you could say "this install cd supports readhat,
suse and windows" (picked a few systems randomly). I also think that for
these kind of users binaries are very important so such a cd should
contain binaries for some common platforms, like 64bit x86.

Another interesting approach would be to provide a live cd. There are many
live linux distros out there, so it would be possible to add gEDA to one
of them. This way the 'lazy' user could try out the system without needing
to understand parts of it, reading manuals, installing or anything like
that. If he likes it, probably he will invest some more time in the
installation process. It would be like a trial period so the user could
decide to invest time or not after experiencing a working version.

In case of *NIX, a special hack would allow to have something similar, a
live environment but one that could embed in the users own system. The
idea is to build up a directory with all the needed binaries and libs and
m4 and everything then use chroot to start the software from there. This
way one can ship all the binaries and libs needed, the exact versions, one
big collection that just works. However this method also assumes
distributing binary files so once the user has a non-supported
architecture, this wouldn't work. Unlike with a live cd, the user uses his
own system and can run his other software, however communication between
chrooted gEDA and the rest of the system would be somewhat difficult. 

<snip>

>The OP wanted to use the software for free, but was disappointed that
>he couldn't make it work for him.  That is too bad, but he does have
>the possibility of asking for help on the user group, or -- better --
>paying somebody to help him set it up.  That is, I do have sympathy
>for his plight, but OTOH, my sympathy is limited since gEDA is a
>freebie and the OP didn't want the software enough to consider paying
>for support. 

This is a good example where a live version could help: if he sees first
the bright side and not the bug-bug-bug part, he probably would spend more
time and/or money to get it working :)

bye

Igor2



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