Re: gEDA-user: gEDA vs commercial product

[Alessandro Baretta <a.baretta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Dan McMahill wrote:
> Alessandro Baretta wrote:
> > Two above all: a complete IEC symbols 
> > library for automation and distribution systems, and support for 
> > multipage projects. 
>
> If you were to draw the symbols, that could solve the first problem!

No, that's not an option. I work 14h a day, and I already contribute to other
free software projects. I do not have time to spend on gschem. And that is a
pity, because I would enjoy contributing. What I could do, though, is pay
someone to do this. As I said, I was willing to spend my budget on gschem. I
offered to do so on this list once before. Now that I have bought a commercial
CAD, my interest in gschem is not gone, but my budget is--at least for 2007.

> As far as multipage projects....  Do you mean a flat hierarchy but with 
> multiple pages?  gschem has supported that for a long time.  As far as 

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I know about hierarchies, and I have been
using them in my own projects, but they require multiple files, and this is a
problem for me. I'd like to have all my project in a single file. And my project
is hardly every less than 20 pages, and can easily reach 100. Please, don't
expect users with this kind of requirement to accept using 100 different .sch
files. Maybe gschem could package them up in a JAR archive, or something of that
sort? Or maybe I have overlooked an obvious feature.

What is worse, is the lack of a command to print all the pages of a 
project--i.e. all the schemata in rooted on a given schema in a hierarchical 
project. This makes me go mad: try printing a 40 page project one page at a 
time! It might be a banal feature, but it's one of those things that can make 
the difference between a productive day and a frustrating day. Keep in mind that 
use an electrical CAD to make a living, and time is literally money to me. I 
cannot afford to waste much of it.

> hierarchy, there are ways to get some hierarchy support for some 
> backends but I'll agree hierarchy support is weak.

I don't think so--at least, not for my usage pattern. The problem is that it 
litters my directories with dozens of files, and I cannot print the whole 
directory at once.

> > There are other features which I also consider paramount, which gEDA, 
> > to my knowledge, lacks: the automatic production of cabling diagrams 
> > and loop diagrams, and support physical layouts of the components 
> > referenced in the topological diagram.
>
> Sorry for being daft here, but what exactly is a cabling diagram and a 
> loop diagram?

They are physical descriptions of the electrical connections in a distribution 
or automation circuit. The cabling diagram lists the wires one by one, 
identifying the endpoints of each wire. It is the main artifact to be deduced 
from the topological diagram for the manufacturing of the circuit. The loop 
diagram is another artifact deduced from the topological diagram, describing in 
the form of a tree the connections from the users (I lack a better translation 
from Italian. I mean all devices using power deriving from the mains: motors, 
lighting equipment, heaters, etc.) to the mains. This is used mainly for 
maintenance, as it easily allows the technician to identify trace the wiring 
from a device which is not working backward to the various switchgear between it 
and the mains.

I have little experience with electronic design, although I studied it at 
university. I have the impression, nonetheless, that it has a radically 
different focus from electrical (distribution/automation) design. Precious 
little CAD software targets this market. I found only one product specifically 
targeting my needs: SPAC by SDProget. (http://www.sdproget.it/index-home.htm) 
It's very expensive, relatively unstable, and as it is based on Autocad, it is a 
real pain in the back. But it has features I need and cannot do without: a full 
standards compliant library of IEC components, a notion of modular components 
(think of a relay, where the solenoid appears on one page and each of the 
contacts on a potentially different page). It provides automatic numbering of 
pages, components and wires, and it allows me to associate real world product 
codes to the idealized IEC symbols. These features are essential for 
professional electrical design.

In conclusion, if anyone is willing to extend gschem with at least some of the 
features I would need, I will gladly pay him to do so. But not before 2008, when 
I'll have some more budget to invest on electrical design tools.

Alex

--
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Ing. Alessandro Baretta

Studio Baretta
http://studio.baretta.com/

Consulenza Tecnologica e Ingegneria Industriale
Technological Consulting and Industrial Engineering

Headquarters
tel. +39 02 370 111 55
fax. +39 02 370 111 54

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tel. +39 02 9880 271
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