Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?

[Steve Meier <smeier@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Michael,

I am in the same boat as you we also use altera software because our
designs here at MRA Tek are so demanding and complex and need to be in
such a small physical volumn that even if descrete components could
handle the computational speed that we need (which they don't) we
couldn't squeeze them into the board size we need.

But as you said "Of course a discrete logic wire-wrapped computer is
cool" or a bit nutty but more power to the builder.

As far as your project goes I am going to keep an eye on it as I am very
unhappy with my sdsl modem.

Steve Meier



On Wed, 2006-11-01 at 22:58 +0000, Michael Sokolov wrote:
> Steve Meier <smeier@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> > Sure why not here is a link to an individual who built a replica of the
> > Apollo Guidance System, using discrete components and wire wrap, in his
> > basement.
> 
> Of course a discrete logic wire-wrapped computer is cool.  There is no
> question on that one.  But there is also a place for FPGAs.  Yes, it
> sucks that they require proprietary software.  Unfortunately we don't
> have the manpower and firepower to annihilate all police and national
> guard etc. and seize the CEOs of Altera and Xilinx, connect variacs to
> them and slowly ramp up the voltage until they release full specs for
> their chips.  So we can't open-source that part yet.  But we can still
> use FPGAs in the meantime to help open-source other things, even if not
> the FPGA itself.
> 
> As a specific example, right now I'm working on open-sourcing the SDSL
> Internet connection technology.  See the project home page I've pointed
> to earlier for the gory details.  The basic idea is to get rid of the
> abominable closed source "modem" provided by the ISP and to replace it
> with an Open Source Hardware device that connects directly to the copper
> pair and talks the SDSL electrical signal format in open source.
> 
> If the SDSL line uses ATM as all newer DSLAMs do, connecting to it
> requires an ATM TC-PHY (implementation of I.432.1) and possibly also a
> custom framer.  Now let's be practical here -- do you think that an
> SSI/MSI implementation of those components would make a practically
> usable DSL modem, one that can readily replace the one provided by the
> ISP?  An FPGA implementation easily can, however.  Replacing the ISP-
> provided box with an open source implementation that uses an FPGA won't
> increase the number of closed source components in your house because
> the ISP-provided SDSL modem has one too if it's an ATM-based flavor of
> SDSL.  But the other components of the "modem", i.e., the top level
> architecture, the microprocessor firmware, all layer 2 and higher stuff,
> will change from closed to open source.  Isn't that a worthy goal?
> We can open-source SDSL using an Altera FPGA now (the exact same FPGA
> used in the current Covad-provided router), while open-sourcing the FPGA
> itself will have to wait until we can gather enough manpower and
> firepower to annihilate the PD in whatever city harbors the Altera CEO
> and hook electrodes to the bastard.
> 
> Another reason why an FPGA saves the day is that there are umpteen
> gazillion different flavors of SDSL -- as many as there are DSLAM
> vendors, each making their own CPE "modem" with Yet Another proprietary
> router OS to fight with.  My open SDSL connectivity project seeks to
> replace them all with a single open source hardware platform that can
> handle all flavors.  How would you propose doing that without an FPGA?
> Practical sensible solutions only please.
> 
> MS
> 
> 
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