Re: gEDA-user: Gerbv-2.0.1 for Windows released, but not working!

[Arius - Rick Collins <erudite999@xxxxxxxxx>]

At 11:47 AM 9/3/2008, you wrote:

> At 11:12 AM 9/3/2008, you wrote:

According to Dan, the ability to load a project file is broken under
Windows.  This has to do with the back-end scheme functionality which
is used to read the project file and then find the appropriate
Gerbers.  Dan is working on it, but since he is a busy guy a fix might
take a few days.

I wasn't aware of this.  Let me know when and I'll be happy to try it out.

> The other issue is how the XYRS feature is supposed to work.  I have no idea
> of how the file is to be formatted or what it should do when loaded.

Look at the .xy file linked to here:

http://gerbv.cvs.sourceforge.net/gerbv/gerbv/example/pick-and-place/

That file reads in to gerbv successfully.  You can use it as a
template.  There is an associated .gbr file also linked with is the
front silkscreen of the board.

Ok, I've loaded the example in and I see small squares for the components.  They have a smaller square in one corner, but this corner seems to be the corner opposite pin 1.  I would expect it to *be* the corner marking pin 1.  Is this working correctly?

Ideally, there would be a library (I'm happy to work on this part) of outlines that look a bit like the actual chip/passive.  The display would show this outline rather than a simple marker. 

I use the Windows program FreePCB which works very well.  It doesn't generate all the extras like XYRS files.  Bruce Parham seems to use it a lot at work and has written several separate apps that read the data base and configuration files and produce all sorts of docs that are needed.  One of them is the XYRS file.  But there is no means of then verifying the XYRS file. 

This all came about because an assembly house I used a few months ago used my XYRS file and put all the parts on the wrong way.  Of course, they should have verified the parts against the silkscreen and didn't.  But I had no way of "proving" that my file was correct.  While I was creating the XYRS file I searched for specs on the file format.  There are *none*.  The main issue is that the file should be text, but little info on the content...

This is from the one doc I found that even talks about it. 

Data Format
The placement machine needs the reference (such
as R01, C56), center coordinates (X, Y), orientation,
package format and value of all components to be
placed and reference marks. All current lay-out
systems have an export function for such placement
data. Column sequence is of no importance and
additional information in additional columns are no
detriment. Coordinates can be outputted either in
inches or millimeters; angle values in degrees, rad
or 0,1,2 and 3. Some programs pack all this in one
file; others generate two files: BOM (bill of
materials) and LOC (list of coordinates).
Of importance is:
? Format: either ASCII or text
? No column separators in the remainder of
the file
? Decimal separators should be a period, not
a comma
? Reference (Eagle: Name), center
coordinates (X,Y), orientation, package type
(Eagle: Package) and value (Eagle: Value) or
device number
? Marking whether the component is to be
placed on the upper or lower board side
(such as "T" for top and "B" for bottom, see
Fig. 3).


My preference is for tab separated data as it makes it much more readable since the columns typically line up.  Also, that is what FPCplace generates.

Here is some more of what they say...

Summary
If you, as a lay-out person, obey the following nine
rules, you can lower production cost, improve
quality and heighten production safety:
1. When configuring a new component, in
your lay-out program always put the
coordinate origin in the component center.
2. Always configure new components in the
same zero-degree position (Pin 1 at lower
left).
3. Use different designations for components
having different dimensions (such as 0603C
and 0603R). Always use the same
nomenclature (for instance: SOT-23 or
SOT23).
4. Avoid empty spaces or special signs (\, /, >,
<, *, ?, ¦, etc.) in names or values. Don't use
any language-specific signs (ä, ö, ü, etc.).
Write "u" instead of "ì."
5. Leave out vendor information where
unnecessary (use 810 L instead of
STM810LWX6F).
6. Place at least three reference marks within
every circuit, surrounded by sufficient
empty space (3xD). Keep them free of solder
resist, tinning and solder paste.
7. With multiple clusters, use additional
reference marks at the edge of the cluster.
8. With fine-pitch components, use one to
three additional local reference marks.
9. Export placement data as ASCII or text files,
using column separators that are not part of
file content.


Notice that they specify 0 degrees as pin one in the SW quadrant.  Although they don't say which direction the rotation is, looking at an illustration, it seems to show that the rotation is CCW.  I want to say I read this somewhere else, but I can't say where.  It is not easy to find this info on the web.

> I can't seem to produce a decent print to a PDF file.  I have selected
> Black&White, but it comes out gray (I guess that's black and white at the same
> time, right?) and looks more like a picture with small pixels instead of lines
> and circles.  Many of the smaller drawing features are missing.

Hmmmmm.... printing bug.  We apparently just got printing working
under Linux, so I'm not suprised it's buggy under Windows.

When it is working for one printer, will that mean it works for all or most?  I have seen a lot of problems with PDF files that don't seem to happen with other printers. 

Thanks for being the Windows guinea pig!  As for how it's supposed to
work:  The program is more or less self-documenting.  You open one (or
more)  Gerber(s) and view it (them).  Or you open a project file and
it opens your previously saved Gerbers.  You can open drill files and
save them.  You can open pick-and-place files and look at them.

You're just stuck in hell because we have lots of Windows
bugs, so lots of menu items don't work as they should.

There aren't that many menu items, so we should have it bug free in no time, right? ;^)

Get a spare computer and load it with Ubuntu.  The user experience is
quite smooth.

I'll give that a try.  The only other working computer I have is an old Pentium MMX.  I have a Pentium II, but I'm not sure it still runs.  We'll see.

Rick

Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company
Specializing in DSP and FPGA design      URL http://www.arius.com
4 King Ave                               301-682-7772 Voice
Frederick, MD 21701-3110

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