Re: About the goals of Indy

[JF Martinez <jfm2@club-internet.fr>]

> From: "Bud Beckman" <n7su@micron.net>
> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:55:10 -0600
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> Jean,
> 
> It'd help if I were not interrupted, I'll attach it this time. I am not
> getting old, I am not getting old . . . .
> 
> Was just about to boot to Linux, thought I better do it here, know how to
> do it here.
> 
> Bud

Here comes your revision with comments.

> 
> Linux users needs have been ignored. Mostly, we learned how to use Linux =
> on our own, to administrate multiple computers from one. We did this =
> even though we were given solutions by people with years of experience =
> in Unix administration. The home Linux user has been given various Linux =
> distributions by companies who did not care about a users specific =
> network needs.
> 

I don't like your revison here.  What I was trying to express is that
people who are learning by themsleves and administering for real can
find that solutions designed for people already knowing Unix are
completely inadequate.

To undestand this think in "Read the HOWTO to know if your card is
supported".  This assumes the person knows the tools for reading it
and where is the doc.  The Unix sysdamin knows this, the Linux person
sometimes doesn't because he hasn't had previous training.  So the
distrib intead should be scanning the PCI bus and telling him: "Hey
your card is not supported" intead of him manly finding about this.


> (I'm not clear about this:)=20
> We were using Linux at home but distribution people never cared about =
> our specific networking needs thus letting us unable to ask for help =
> when we needed it unless we rebooted Windows.(Maybe you can explain this =
> to me, why reboot to Windows?) People using Linux at work while part of =

Because the user is unable to send mail from Linux.  Perhaps the
sentence should be modified to "letting us unable to ask for help"

> their coworkers were using Windows found they were supposed to be the =
> master server not clients on workstations or that DHCP handling was =
> inadequate. (No communication among workers in an office setting? =
> Because of different operationg systems?)=20
> 

Poor comuunication.  A colleague using Windows shares his disk in
order to show you some data.  But mounting a Windows share from Linux
is a gruesome task with the stsndrad tools shipped in the distribs.
There are tools who make this as easy as point and click but they rae
not included

> Distribution people seem to treat us as we are all hackers, however, =
> more and more marketing people, musicians, professors of litterature, =
> researchers in all fields of science, in fact, many academic groups are =

Scientists have been using Unix for decades and getting traing for
this.  no problem for them so son't mention them.

The specificity of Linux is those people without computer backgrounds,
using at home, learning alone and willing to use it for tasks Unix was
never used  Their needs aren't well covered by distrubs.

> using Linux, people whose skill and needs are vastly different from the =
> traditional Unix user.
> 


> Obsolete programs continue to find their way in distributions due to =
> tradition, or, by lobbying of a vocal minority of Unix interest groups =

I prefer "vocal minority of Unix biggots".  Given the ratre of
expansion of Linux about one Linuxer in two has less than one year
experience so the people who advocate for such or such user hostile
program "because this is the Unix way" are minority.  

> while far better and easier programs remain in obscurity and =
> infrequently used. =20
> 
> All these problems have a common origin:
> distributions treat Linux as a traditional Unix without noticing
> that its small cost allows it to be used for tasks and contexts which =
> Unix was never used, and by various computer users.
> 

by  people different than the Unix public.

> We are tired of this.  We think it is time Linux users take charge and =
> build our own distribution, paying attention to our needs, our problems, =

"build their own distribution" unles that we change the first line to
"It is time, us, the Linux users take charge"

> that we no longer accept solutions coming from traditional Unix users or =

I prefer "from above".  I tend to see us as the unwashed massses and
distributiuon designers as an aristocracy who doesn't understand our
problems

> from what are now obsolete traditions in many distributions.
> 
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