On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 05:59:56PM -0400, George wrote: > On 04/09/18 17:36, ilv@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > > Hi, > > > >> There's a few questions embedded in this proposal. > >> > >> First, we have to differentiate between language- and region-based > >> lists, with regions being defined by geography and language. > >> > >> As someone who has spawned more dead-on-arrival lists than most, > >> I'm apprehensive about two things: > >> > >> 1. creating lists for a perceived gap which ultimately die > >> > >> 2. creating lists that siphon off discussion from existing lists > >> > >> In terms of languages, I don't know enough about the critical mass, > >> but I would assume there is more than enough of a base for an ES > >> list, at the very minimum. And PT_BR is obviously another solid > >> option. > >> > >> The problems become a proliferation of lists that someone, say, who > >> is an ES speaker *should* sub to. Now it's @global-south, plus the > >> ES list, but then what about the regional question. > >> > > > > I would prefer to open more spaces than to think what they *should* > > do. > > > >> Then the regional lists which should also be set with the > >> respective language. But the regional list would likely be less of > >> a Tor usage discussion than an organizing list, I'd guess. > >> > >> Language lists are primarily meant to provide a channel for > >> non-English speakers, to state the obvious. > >> > >> I'm thinking very much out loud here. I worry about a proliferation > >> of lists which take away from the main channels for discussion. > >> > > > > The idea is to open space for discussions that are not currently > > happening the main channels, such as other mailing lists or IRC > > channels. > > > >> I'm supportive of creating new language and/or regional lists, the > >> relevant people from those groups need to consider the utility in > >> terms of audience and purpose. Think technical discussion versus > >> organizing. If there's an ES list, it should likely be > >> software-focused, since it's the language issue that's being > >> approached. It can assist ES-speakers in LATAM, EU and beyond. But > >> a regional list (which should be designated with the respective > >> language) is more likely an organizing tool. > >> > >> An ES list that goes into the organizing specifics of a local event > >> in LATAM will only make ES speakers not from the region yawn. > >> > >> Sorry if I seem to be dancing around the issue here. I think > >> articulating "for whom" and "about what" for a list is vital. Dead > >> lists help no one, and lists that just put more on the plate of a > >> few Tor people need to be avoided. > >> > >> Maybe it makes sense to start with an ES list and see how it goes? > >> > > > > Yes, thanks for all the feedback. I think we could perfectly use a > > localized list as a support, discussion and organizing tool. But we > > really don't know if we don't try, so let's see how it goes :) > > > >> Mailing lists are often chicken-and-egg problems... if you don't > >> have the list, you don't recognize there's an audience. > >> > >>>> > >>>> On 04/06/2018 07:10 AM, Vasilis wrote: > >>>>> Since the global-south name is horrible and we have never > >>>>> gone into the process of changing I guess it will make sense > >>>>> to rename the list (and the IRC channe) and then announce it > >>>>> to the world as the LATAM Tor mailing list? > >>>> I agree that the name "global-south" is suboptimal, but we've > >>>> had multiple conversations about this (I think you've been > >>>> there for at least a couple of them), most recently discussions > >>>> in Rome, where the rough consensus was that the name is > >>>> problematic but less problematic than other choices and there > >>>> isn't a better option that's widely recognized. So it's not > >>>> exactly true that no one has gone into the process of changing > >>>> it...it's been discussed in every meeting I've been in related > >>>> to global south initiatives. > >> > >> > >> Am I incorrect to think that @global-south list is really LATAM > >> anyways? > >> > >> We should probably move towards a LATAM list to replace > >> @global-south. It *seems* to be what the list is in practice. And > >> maybe sticking to some combination of language- and region-specific > >> lists is the right direction. > >> > >> g > >> > >> > > > > Saludos. > > Maybe an operational way to start this would be to do a blog post about > the specific list being launched? Then getting it tweeted, circulated > in the appropriate language sites, etc? > > It would be one way to conjure up interest... > Very good idea, thanks. I'm sure we can manage to do something like this. --i
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