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[tor-relays] Re: Tor People @ WHY2025
> We talked about problems related to the (relay) Onion Key when that is
> updated from a restarted stateless node, and what could be done about
> that.
That's a problem also experienced by the Snowflake bridges (being more
than a single tor instance per bridge), and something i have interest
in in the context of webtunnel + geodistributed websites (so again
multiple tor instances per bridge). In
https://www.petsymposium.org/foci/2023/foci-2023-0011.pdf section 3.2,
the Snowflake operators describe a workaround (basically freezing the
file), meaning the key becomes about as valuable as the identity key
(according to the paper), though you could imagine somehow re-creating
it manually and updating your static seed from time to time.
regards,
trinity-1686a
On Mon, 11 Aug 2025 at 15:49, Alexander Hansen Færøy via tor-relays
<tor-relays@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> On 08/08/2025 19.13, Alexander Hansen Færøy via tor-relays wrote:
> > Let's meet in 2 days, on Sunday, 2025-08-10, from 17:00 to 18:00, at the
> > BornHack star tent in the Loud North cluster[1]. Both BornHack and
> > ANDERSTORPSFESTIVALEN won't be blasting out music during this time, so
> > we'll hopefully have a meeting where we can hear each other.
> Hello Tor Relay Operators,
>
> We had our meetup yesterday here at WHY2025. Here are my notes, based on my
> memory and the whiteboard we used during the meeting. Thanks to everybody who
> participated!
>
> Announcements:
> - Alex talked about the upcoming community event in Denmark, and information
> on the event is available at https://tcg2025.4711.se/
>
> Discussions:
> - The Future of Tor:
> - The group discussed concerns about Tor ("the company") and its base in
> the US with the current political situation there.
> - Alex described the current funding situation, particularly around
> the grants that he is aware of, that is primarily related to the
> Arti project, and how they are currently considered stable.
> - Discussions took place on whether it would be beneficial to
> establish a European alternative to Tor ("the company") in the
> future, considering the desired resilience properties that would
> help mitigate potential negative impacts if the US situation
> deteriorates.
> - What is the IPv6 situation with Tor?
> - Alex mentioned that he and GK had a discussion earlier this year
> about both a potential solution for having IPv6-only Middlenodes
> (in a network where all guards and all exits are dual-stack) and
> how one could do something similar to Happy Eyeballs within the
> Tor ecosystem. The former is largely a policy change, whereas the
> latter requires some changes in C Tor and Arti.
> A Tor spec proposal is needed, along with funding to build it.
> - It was mentioned that we should address the bridge situation with
> IPv6, as it is not in a good state.
> - Mixnets/Store and Forward inside the Tor ecosystem
> - We briefly discussed whether there were plans to add anything like
> that to the Tor ecosystem. Alex said that we had no such plans in
> the near future, with the ongoing work all being focused on
> getting Arti into the Tor Browser, VPN, and the Relay operators.
> - Alex added that if people attended Morgan's talk from the day
> before, they could imagine a world where Onion Service-based
> Instant Messengers would benefit from being able to do offline
> messaging.
> - Anonymity Properties and NetFlow trading
> - The group discussed the recent news about companies actively
> purchasing NetFlow data for analysis purposes.
> - Alex mentioned the recent work related to Website Traffic
> Fingerprinting and the padding layer in C Tor. The Network Team is
> currently working on integrating MaybeNot[1] in Arti for even
> stronger padding machines.
> - Status of Arti Relay:
> - Alex gave the group a short update on the current status of Arti
> Relays:
> - The Network Team is currently working on:
> - Simulation tooling with Shadow and Chutney.
> - Directory Authority support in Arti, including handling the
> large number of different documents available via the
> directory layer of Tor.
> - Core Relay functionality.
> - (Unrelated to Arti Relays) Conflux, Congestion Control, and
> PoW (for services) have also been priorities recently, as they
> overlap significantly, with some components serving both
> client and relay-side needs.
> - We will have an open call for volunteers at a later point to help
> create a parallel Tor test network. Initially, it will consist of
> C Tor nodes, but we plan to experiment with Arti Relays there as
> development happens. We will likely need to reboot the network
> multiple times to prepare for the transition to the production Tor
> network.
> - Stateless Relays
> - The group discussed shortly the desire by some folks to experiment
> with stateless relays. The Italian group has been working in this
> space recently and provided a brief update on their progress.
> - We talked about problems related to the (relay) Onion Key when that is
> updated from a restarted stateless node, and what could be done about
> that.
>
> Cheers,
> Alex
>
> [1]: https://github.com/maybenot-io/
>
> --
> Alexander Hansen Færøy
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