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[tor-relays] Re: Guidance on optimal Tor relay server configurations - Maximum 360 Tor relays allowed?



On Friday, 21 March 2025 14:54 mail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> Mar 21, 2025, 14:10 by Tor at 1AEO <tor@xxxxxxxx>:
> > How best to find out these 20% and 10% values at any point, especially as
> > they fluctuate?

> Nusenu's OrNetStats is the best source I have found to check on relay
> operator/family statistics, operating systems statistics etc. But as you
> have already found out as well, it refreshes only once per month or so,
> limiting it's usefulness. It used to be pretty much daily in the past, but
> it seems this isn't maintainable anymore. And with fair reasons.

I can only agree that Nusenu's OrNetStats is the best source.
Once you have configured AROI:
https://nusenu.github.io/OrNetStats/#authenticated-relay-operator-ids

you will have your personal page:
https://nusenu.github.io/OrNetStats/for-privacy.net.html
https://nusenu.github.io/OrNetStats/nothingtohide.nl.html

AFAIK, the fact that updates are no longer daily is a question of cost.
The millions of database queries cost money. The database was sponsored by 
someone for nusenu for a while.

> I suggest contacting Nusenu if you need more frequent updates. Previously
> Nusenu was looking for use-cases that warranted increasing the update
> frequency. NTH would also benefit from more frequent updates, but we're
> hesitant to pressure people who volunteer their spare time for these kind
> of (awesome) projects in to spending even more time.

> > Seems a waste to negotiate a five year financial colo or server contract
> > when the Tor network doesn't want it due to lack of sufficient diversity?

> The 20% of exit capacity is indeed not a lot so you will probably reach the
> required amount of exit consensus weight relatively easy/fast. But the 10%
> cap on overall consensus weight on the other hand provides a bit more
> headroom for some additional guard/middle relays. So you could just start
> with exit relays and then check the exit consensus weight every now and
> then. When you hit 20%, just convert a few relays to guard/middle relays.
> 
> When you add tens of gigabits to the network, you will also increase the
> network size, effectively providing more exit relay headroom for other Tor
> operators and yourself as well. The more operators, the more everyone can
> grow their relays before hitting the cap. It's not perfect, but the Tor
> project values diversity more than increasing network capacity/speed so
> there is not much we can do about this. I'd say: don't go overboard with 5
> year contracts. Maybe start with 20 Gb/s and then increase by chunks of 10
> Gb/s when there is enough headroom. Good luck,
> 
> tornth
> 
> > On Monday, March 10th, 2025 at 7:34 AM, boldsuck via tor-relays <tor-
relays@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> On Sunday, 9 March 2025 22:59 Tor at 1AEO via tor-relays wrote:
> >> > New constraint - any guidance? Math seem right?
> >> > All relay operators / families are limited to a maximum of ~360 Tor
> >> > relays:
> >> > https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/core/tor/-/issues/40837 I'll likely
> >> > create an account to reply on the gitlab ticket too since looks like
> >> > different audience than those replying here.
> >> > 
> >> > Unfortunately, if the Tor network isn't efficient in using the
> >> > bandwidth
> >> > across ~4 x 10 Gbps servers then this limit will be reached, hindering
> >> > known good operators, while not stopping malicious operators who don't
> >> > follow the rules. Least efficient, ~512 CPU threads / relays for 4 x 10
> >> > Gbps (128 threads/relays per 1 x 10 Gbps server). Most efficient, ~320
> >> > CPU
> >> > threads / relays for 4 x 10 Gbps (80 threads/relays per 1 x 10 Gbps
> >> > server).
> >> > 
> >> > Today, optimize Tor relay for the ~360 constraints:
> >> > 1) Maximize bandwidth per CPU thread/core/relay with higher CPU base
> >> > clock
> >> > 2) Other hardware: Ensure sufficient RAM per Tor relays (4GB to 1 CPu
> >> > thread) and good NIC. 3) Maximize network peering / routing strategies
> >> > for
> >> > Tor?
> >> > Anything else?
> >> 
> >> With so many relays per Family/Operator you also reach the 20% and 10%
> >> limits and /16.
> >> And you have to be able to pay the bandwidth costs. A 10G relay does
> >> 100TB/day and several PB per month.
> >> 
> >> > For #3, how best to optimize network routing / peering strategies for
> >> > Tor
> >> > relays? This email thread was optimizing around CPU threads and RAM but
> >> > having plenty of CPU threads and RAM that might be insufficient with a
> >> > poor
> >> > network routing/peering strategy for Tor? Is there a reasonable way or
> >> > some
> >> > reliable way to quickly (less than a few months of running the relays)
> >> > get
> >> > in the correct range of how well the Tor network uses a specific
> >> > server's
> >> > available bandwidth? Ex: Route hops / ping times to directory /
> >> > bandwidth
> >> > authorities, confirming well known upstream providers (Cogent, etc.),
> >> > and/or something else? Best strategy is month-to-month renting servers
> >> > and
> >> > running relays rather than signing 5 year contracts to end up somewhere
> >> > with poor peering/routing for Tor?
> >> 
> >> The Tor network is a dynamic massive network and bandwidth contributions
> >> and overall consensus weight are constantly changing. When a larger
> >> operator (like NTH or RWTH Aachen) goes up or down everything changes.
> >> In addition, the Tor network team and DirAuth's may change consensus
> >> rules at any time.
> >> 
> >> Diversity is important and that relays and bridges are running at all.
> >> How big an operator can be will also be a big issue when Arti and Family
> >> keys arrive. Because relayon reached 25% exit cw, the IPs were split
> >> between several orgs.

-- 
╰_╯ Ciao Marco!

Debian GNU/Linux

It's free software and it gives you freedom!

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