Re: [tor-talk] "If you have access to certain tools, you can completely ignore Tor."

[Jacob Appelbaum <jacob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 12/19/2011 08:59 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 21:02:37 -0600
> Joe Btfsplk <joebtfsplk@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Under current US & other nations' laws, it's possible that gov'ts
>> have already forced developers of any software -  incl. Tor - to put
>> in backdoors.  And in fact, say it's illegal for the devs of any
>> software to outright disclose such. 
> 
> https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#Backdoor. If we're forced
> to put one in someday, we'll make it obvious and loud that it is so.
> The world will be in a sad state if this comes true. A forced backdoor
> in Tor will be the least of your problems.
> 

No Backdoors. No bugdoors. No so-called "lawful interception" systems.

As another person working on Tor - I'll be more direct and less
ambiguous: If anyone ever even *tries* to force us to insert a backdoor,
we'd tell the world. We won't every compromise the security of Tor and
we will never insert a backdoor. Never.

We must reject these so-called "compromises" for so-called "lawful
interception" and we must fight against their deployment everywhere.
They are harmful to everyone - including those that use them
legitimately - just ask the Greek phone operator who was suicided after
the Great Greek Vodafone Backdoor was found.

>> I don't know that it has happened w/ Tor, but it certainly has in
>> other cases.  If you want true anonymity, don't use the internet,
> 
> I parse this as the 'abstinence model of Internets'. It doesn't work for
> sex education, addictive substances, and it's unlikely to work for
> anyone in a modern society. We need a better answer than 'all or
> nothing'. We're trying to make Tor one of these better answers.
> 

Indeed.

The abstinence model is a punt. That model claims that the world exists
outside of the internet and for most people it does not. It's also a
claim that the "non-internet" world offers "true anonymity" and it does not.

All the best,
Jacob
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