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Re: [tor-talk] Escape NSA just to enter commercial surveillance?
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Markus Hitter wrote:
> ... Roger cheered a lot about Facebook offering a hidden service.
> To be honest, this surprises me quite a bit. Tor is for
> anonymisation, so one can escape tax paid surveillance by NSA, GCHQ
> & Co., which is useful. And then such a Tor user connects to
> Facebook, where one has to log in, making this anonymisation
> completely pointless? At least I don't get the point.
Tor is not for anonymization. At least, not in the pervasive sense
that you mean it. All Tor provides is location anonymity (of the
client or server); the applications on top have to also be designed
for anonymity (and the user educated, etc etc) to attempt to get close
to full anonymization. So yes, in that sense using Facebook over Tor
is pointless, because Facebook requires that you be logged in with a
But sometimes, location anonymity is all you need. What if you are in
a country where Facebook is banned? Facebook's HS will enable you to
reach it (using bridges or PTs if necessary). What if you are a public
figure and need to go into hiding to protect yourself? A Tor client
will enable you to communicate publicly over Facebook without
> Even assuming that Facebook doesn't regularly exchange user data
> with NSA, this makes mass surveillance trivial. Useful, welcome, or
> not, Facebook does mass surveillance on its own, as stated business
> practice. Also, I'm pretty sure if another Manning-like case
> appears, NSA would immediately command Facebook to offer the
> related user identification.
Not everyone's adversary is the NSA.
> If there's cheering about Facebook hidden services, shouldn't
> always a note be added that logging in there identifies a user,
> making Tor (almost) pointless?
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