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Re: German data rentention law

     On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:14:21 +0100 Eugen Leitl <eugen@xxxxxxxxx>
>On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 09:21:09AM +0100, Lexi Pimenidis wrote:
>> Just for their (and your) information: the maximum possible penality
>> for non-compliance is 500,000 EUR plus the fees of the law suit.
>If you're running a middle-man only node on domestic broadband
>the logging part is your provider's problem, no?</ianal>

     Does that mean you're willing to try it, Eugen? :)
>(I asked a German provider (Hetzner) who told me they're not going to
>log for colo customers, so there things will be more risky).
>> I really appreciate Tor and I also appreciate people to stand up for
>> Tor. But keeping Tor running without logging after January 1st and not
>> being filthy rich *and* having having a tons of lawyers in your kitchen
>> will IMHO be similar to suicide.
>> There got to be another alternative - and I don't refer to logging.

     There is, or rather, there are, but it depends upon social and legal
traditions sadly lacking throughout much of Europe and other parts of the
world.  In the U.S., those traditions were reinforced by the process of
gaining independence from the British Crown and Parliament.  There is a
saying here that we defend our liberties with four boxes...
>Bullet-proof hosting or incorporating behind an offshore front would
>come to mind -- both are not bargain options.

     Not to mention storing up lots of bullets, lest the Tree of Liberty
require a fresh feeding...
>There are of course several other, illegal possibilities.
     In the U.S., such data retention legislation would be illegal itself.
That would not stop criminal legislators from passing it, though, as people
in the U.S. have had demonstrated clearly to them on a very frequent basis
for the last two decades.  This is one of the reasons why software like tor
and PGP (or GPG) are so important.  Big Brother must be stopped, and that
requires enforcement of our Bill of Rights by whatever means will work.  tor
and PGP are useful tools in enforcing Amendments I and parts of IV and V
under some circumstances.  If the People won't enforce them, then they won't
be enforced.  Expecting the courts to defend the Constitution has been a bad
bet from the beginning (a "fox-guarding-the-henhouse" scenario).

                                  Scott Bennett, Comm. ASMELG, CFIAG
* Internet:       bennett at cs.niu.edu                              *
* "A well regulated and disciplined militia, is at all times a good  *
* objection to the introduction of that bane of all free governments *
* -- a standing army."                                               *
*    -- Gov. John Hancock, New York Journal, 28 January 1790         *