Re: [roy@rant-central.com: Re: [arma@mit.edu: Re: Wikipedia & Tor]]

[David Benfell <benfell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:50:52 -0400, Jimmy Wales wrote:
> 
> Actually, the transport layer *is* to blame.  I don't know how much more
> clear I can be about it.  Because Tor users are almost universally bad,
> because almost no good edits come out of the Tor network, we block them.
> 
With statements like this, why are you even here?  This is a statement
that allows no room for negotiation.  You are, in essence, claiming
that Tor servers exist for the sole purpose of aiding and abetting the
defacing of Wikipedia and other mischief.  Therefore, those of us who
host Tor servers are bad people, whether by intent or otherwise.

<snip>
> 
> I don't say "privacy is wrong, so Tor should change their philosophy".
> I make no apologies for simply ignoring you if you say that "openness is
> wrong, so Wikipedia should change their philosophy."
> 
> > Roger gets it.  The Wikipedians don't.
> 
> What is it that we don't get?

What it is you don't get is that you have already decided that Tor is
evil.  You do so based on your claim that almost everything you get
through Tor servers is vandalism.  You want us to authenticate users,
in direct contradiction to the entire idea of anonymity.  Therefore,
you would have us emasculate Tor.

And at the same time, you claim to endorse the idea of anonymity, by
1) not authenticating users, while 2) claiming that you *do*
authenticate users.

>  This thread started off because a Tor
> server complained to me about the blocking, and part of my response is
> that one beef I have is that some people in the Tor community seem very
> happy to simply stick their heads in the sand and pretend that
> "Wikipedians don't get it".

If you have security problems, then you need to address your security
problems.  Instead, you are asking us to address your security
problems.  And you twist logic to accuse us of sticking our heads in
the sand when it is your authentication model--whether in fact you
actually do authenticate or not--that seems fundamentally
contradictory and fundamentally flawed.

But rather than resolve your own contradiction, you would have us
import it into Tor.  Like I said before, wrong answer.

-- 
David Benfell, LCP
benfell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
---
Resume available at http://www.parts-unknown.org/