Re: My ideas may not be compatible with yours but...

[Doug Loss <dloss@csrlink.net>]

On Sat, 03 Jul 1999 01:58:59 +0200, Malonowa <malonowa@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> Doug Loss wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 02 Jul 1999 23:55:08 +0200, Malonowa <malonowa@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>> >
>> > 50 programmers who have no educational expertise at all want to help
>> > you.
>> >
>> If some of these coders want to take a crack at starting such a
>> project, we can certainly provide the educational expertise for them.
>>
>
>   How exactly will you provide the educational expertise? I think my point here is
> that publishing this expertise, making it easily accessible as HTML would be great
> for the above. Simply using a mailing list like this could become an exhaustive
> business. Although this mailing list is very important and should remain as a key
> part of what takes place.
>
I was thinking that we could connect coders hoping to start a project with 
educators interested in that project, who could act as advisors, test subjects, 
and "reality checks" as to what's needed/useful and what's not.  As you say 
having  this kind of info easily available on a website might be a very good 
start, but I think it can't be a static information base but must instead be a 
dialog between the coders and the educators.

> We're actually heading in much the same direction but I think we're explaining it
> differently - perhaps I just have a personality problem when it comes to explaining
> things - too many bad business habits.
>
You know, I didn't think our goals were all that different.  The thing is, 
we're all volunteers here, and need to have a certain comfort level to make it 
worth our while to continue doing the work.

> The problem is that you need the educational expertise published before you can
> attract the programmers otherwise they won't know what it's all about. The
> programmers need designs and ideas to work from.
>
That's a good point.  Tim Wilson, we talked a _long_ time ago about a gradebook 
definition.  Along with that, we have a library catalog and a seeting planner 
on our ToDo list.  If we could get good definitions of what these programs 
should do, how the information should be entered and presented to the user, and 
what additional features beyond the required base would be desirable, it might 
be quite a bit easier to get something started.  We already have two nascent 
gradebook programs (don't we, Justin and Bradley?); I'm sure they could do with 
such a definition.  Tim, could you work on such a definition for gradebooks?  
It'd be nice to put a "finished" on one of our projects.  Others, could someone 
step up and commit to developing definitions for a library catalog and a 
seating planner?

> But you do have a problem recruiting volunteers and I'm one of those people you'd
> like to recruit so shouldn't you be trying to accomodate my feelings?
>
I haven't been trying to alienate you, Roman.  I certainly hope you'll stay 
around and continue sharing your views with the rest of us.  Folks, Roman is 
one of those I alluded to in an earlier message whom I specifically asked to 
join seul-edu.  Of course, I didn't then realize how lively our discussions 
would become :-).  Roman has valuable insights that I think can help us in our 
goal of fostering Linux applications in education.  His enthusiasm is 
certainly evident.

At the same time, Roman, many of the folks here have different ideas and needs 
than you or I do, and we need to be mindful of that.  I think a respectful 
dialog that incorporates all views of a subject can enrich us all much more 
than a lock-step in any direction.  That's why, while all the software we're 
developing is likely to be open source (at the moment it all is), I personally 
am not averse to finding and promoting commercial educational programs that run 
on Linux.  In fact, I wrote a HOWTO on how to advocate ports of commercial 
programs to Linux.

One of my fondest wishes is that we become so successful at what we're 
attempting that the need for seul-edu disappears as consideration for Linux in 
education becomes second nature to educators around the world.  This can't 
happen unless we explore all avenues open to us.  Roman has opened yet another 
avenue to us, and we need to see where it leads.  But that doesn't mean we 
should abandon the paths we're already on.

Doug Loss            Democracy substitutes election by the
dloss@csrlink.net    incompetent many for appointment by
(570) 326-3987       the corrupt few.
                        George Bernard Shaw