Re: Resignation as seul-install leader

[jfm2@club-internet.fr]

> 
> Well, I am _truly disappointed_  to  see JFrancois getting away from
> the  project.   He  knows  much  about  technical  stuff,  code  and
> distributions.  He has shown a very straightforward,  practical  and
> constructive  criticism  which should be assimilated.  It'd be a hit
> under the belt  for  the  project  to  loose  such  guys.  I request
> JFrancois to drink a cold beer, hehe, and to  think  about  what  we
> talked  a  few days ago: this linux stuff is far more important than
> we ever thought.
> 
>     Cool down.  
>     
> Please, don't leave the  ship  and  keep  on  going with the install
> thing which IS *The Gate* to linux for millions, everywhere.
> 

Aldo.

Why all distributions from Debian to Caldera just suck?  Because they
are designed by people who lerned Unix in universities so they are
just unable to figure what are the problems met by new Linux users.
Linux users have not the opportunity of a gentle introduction to Unix.
From the start they have to become involved in system administartion
and sometimes kernel recompiling.  So I am mad when I see a
distribution who does not try hard to make than kernel recompilings no
longer be a necessity: kernel compilings can make a potentaial user
flee.  I am mad when I see a distribution assume than we have LANs at
home.  I am mad when I see a distrib assuming than all people live in
USA where phone is cheap so they can read news online.  I am mad when
I see a distribution assuming all people will like LateX and not
trying to find a Wysywyg for their users.  I am mad because all these
things translate into users returning to DOS in frustration.  So I am
not in awe in front of distribution developpers.


Second thing: How to have the right attitude?  First thing have an
introduction to UNIX you wouldn't want for your worst ennemy.  Mine
was fixing the Minix kernel: the hard disk didn't work with it.  I had
only a 360K floppy for doing it so I couldn't enjoy the luxuries of
make in fact I had to move the .c to the ram disk then mount the
compil disk, compile the .c, move the .o to the ram disk, mount the
link floppy and move the .o to it.  In addition I was typing blind: no
french keyboard driver in Minix (I fixed this once the HD worked) in
addition I remember looking at the book not for the syntax of "cp" but
to know what was the command for copying a file.  And now you
understand why I would shot distribution developpers who don't care
about people forced to recompile kernel before having had time to
learn basic Unix: not everyone has had Unix lessons before being
thrown into deep water.

Another point is learn to think like an end user: do not look how
great is your distribution.  Ask yourself one thing: How far is that
distribution from allowing my sister going to Linux.  Because the day
your sister will be able to use Linux IT WILL BE THE END OF MICROSOFT.
At times it seems than I am the only one in this list knowing his
sister is NOT a real man.

Third: When you see another distribution do not look at it trying to
find than your distro is better or if something is broken but what are
the ideas in it. Take a lokk at Redhat: they are a commercial company,
they have contracts with resellers or CD manufacturers so at times
they can be forced to ship before being completely ready (in addition
this time they tried to have RH hit the stands the same day all around
the world and that shortened debugging).  So when they introduce big
changes you can be hit by some grave bugs.  But in RH 4.0 they built
their distrib around kernel modules and kerneld and built the kernel
to have full networking out of the box: no kernel recompilings when
you installed Linux in a company.  Some users got bitten by some CD
modules not working properly when loaded with kerneld and being unable
to install.  I was one of them.  I found a way around and in the
meantime RH had the driver of my CD fixed by Alan Jones they had just
hired.  In RH 5.0 they had made possible to get sound support
(GAAAMES!!!) without kernel recompiling, in addition they are trying
to have the configuration software autodetecting the hardware.  Even
if there are still some people for whom it does not work this is the
way to go if we want to spread Linux.


Most ideas I have exposed are pretty obvious if you apply those four
principles.

Also understand than I _hate_ civil wars between Linuxers.  The Debian
people have far too much indulged in attacks against other distribs
(look at the archives and count attacks against Debain and attacks
from Debianners against rest of world).  For me a distrib with features 


About me returning some things would need to change: a clear decision
process, getting things moving, forgetting about distribution
rivalries and having leaders looking seriously at their distribs.  In
addition I still think SEUL is too heavy for this phase so I prefer
Independence.  That does not mean than if I have a good idea I would
not post it to SEUL.


But listen in France they say anger is a bad councelor but for me it
has sharpened my wits.

I think I have made two crucial breakthroughs: the software repository
and the piggy backed distribution.

We are facing two problems: getting things moving in a way than every
person will know they are moving.  There are a kind of dynamics in
this kind of project: people don't work until than the project is
moving.  So put things in movement by assigning a job who would be
useful to all the Linux community and than nearly everyone can do:
packaging.

That is were the repository is useful: we would provide the users with
software than the distrib developpers are too traditionalistic to
include in their distribs because they are thinking in LANs or LaTeX.
Users don't know were this software is or even if it exists.

Biut for SEUL members this is the kind of job than can put the things
to move because packaging is relatively easy (easier than programming)
and those people not packging could try to find and eveluate software
so you can start tomorrow (that is I will be doing).

It would be possible to have part of SEUL building DPKGs, another part
making the proper for Slackware (not than there is much to do for a
Slack package) while Indepedence packages for the RPM-based distribs.
It would be possible to trade info between SEUL and Indepedence about
softwrea or tricks to improve the package.  More important we would
help everyone whatever distrib they are using (we would cover
Slack, Debian and all the RPM-based distribs).



The other problem is how to put SEUL in the hands of end users.  SEUL
target users are not like those of SLS in 93 were people with a modem
were downloading Linux, they are not like people of Debian buying CDs
from CheapBytes.  SEUL users _NEED_ paper doc and they will get their
Linux distribs from conventional bookstores (the ones with a computer
department selling "Macs for dummies") not in geeks stores.  But here
we have a chicken and egg problem: until we get SEUL in stores we
don't get users so no vendor would be interested by it, but without
vendor no stores.  Here is where the idea of an installer piggy
backing over the CD of a conventional distribution can allow us to get
our first users.  Notice however than that distrib must be one than
Joe User would find in non-geek stores.

But now look: thanks the repository you have got the software you
needed (sometimes carried to yoy by previous users), with luck you
have got some of your "customers" fixing some brain damaged
distribution-specific config software.  All remaining to do is
building the installator.  Yes it is the last thing to build not the
first.

Independence is going RPM and piggy backing over RedHat.  Obviously if
you want to build upon Debian piggy backing makes little sense but I
think the software repository can get SEUL moving and that you would
be better to let the installator for last phase.

Also notice than the Repository would be useful no matter if SEUL and
Indepdence ever become full distribs.  And than it can be done _NOW_.

-- 
			Jean Francois Martinez

The worthy man is the one who would drink muddy water if such were the
water of truth.


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