Re: SEUL: SEUL duplicating efforts?

[Cyberdyn <cyberdyn@seul.org>]

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On 14-Feb-98 Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
- -> 
- -> But configuring the devices (setting links, in particular) is part of
- -> configuring X. It can't really be seperated. If I get a new vid card, I
- -> should be able to reconfigure with just one program. That program should
- -> take care of both detection and configuration.

No.  Setting up the mouse and keyboard are not a part of X config.  The mouse
and keyboard are setup at the console config level.  You simply need to
inform X that they exist and where they are which can be automated.  Ofcourse
the exception would be keyboard variations but I don't think this poses a
specail problem.

- -> hence the discussion concerning xdm. But hey, what about my menu based
- -> 'shell' which 
- -> (a) just requires you to select and hit return (much like
- -> point-and-click except not as pretty) and 

The point is that this "not as pretty" aspect falsely conveys the opinion of
"not as good" to these types of users.  This pops up on the screen and a
grimace pop's up on their face.

- -> (b) allows you to change the initial run level to 5 (XDM) once the display
- -> is set up ? relying on being able to boot into a graphical shell does seem
- -> like risky business... 

I don't think runlevels should even be visable to the user, unless they are
veterans.

Booting into a graphical environment doesn't have to be risky at all.

- -> though this shouldn't really require input from the user... the point is
- -> that the RedHat Xconfig program seems to require the user to set the link
- -> which is really silly...

At most the user should be prompted to click a button or rotate the mouse so
the ports can be monitored to set the link to the mouse.

- -> well until X is set up correctly, it really should ! with a menu shell,
- -> you can just select 'start graphics' from the (root) shell menu and hit
- -> return. You could even choose 'start graphics at boot next time'. I've
- -> seen X fail before several times (and screwed it up myself on a few
- -> occasions) and
- -> having a text console to boot into until X works would be a very good
- -> thing. Booting into xdm is nice when the display is set up, but if it's
- -> not, you want an insurance policy. Well I do anyway.

The main problem I've noticed in setting up X is that there is the immediate
attempt to setup X for your hardware.  This is the wrong approach for a
green-horn.  They should be forced into the generic setup known to work on
nearly every hardware combination in existance.  Then work their way up to
optimal config.

- -> Another idea : on SunOS, they have something where it starts
- -> sunview/openwin when you log in by default, but allows you to interrupt
- -> and go to the shell by hitting ^C. I wonder if something like this could
- -> be done ?

This is a very good idea.  We can use the init file that starts xdm to script
in a short delay and key sequence to send them straight into a menu like the
one you get with F8 when booting Windows.

- -> the problem is that the installation process often seems unaware that it
- -> hasn't figured out the system. For example, I have seen X fire up and the
- -> monitor squeal with a blank screen, and seen X fire up with screwed
- -> vertical timings. the system doesn't "know" that it's not set up properly.
- -> And unless some-one does something revolutionary with the monitor set up
- -> procedure, there will be problems.

There are ways around this, such as xvidtune.  Maybe lame but they are there.
 If the user is forced into a basic server until his hardware is set to
optimum config we should have little to no problem keeping them in a graphic
environment.


- ---
E-Mail: Cyberdyn@seul.org       Date: 14-Feb-98        Time: 18:50:54
It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because
he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.
- - Voltaire


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