Re: SEUL: Free Enough?

[jfm2@club-internet.fr]

> 
> jfm2@club-internet.fr wrote:
> > 
> > Troll Tech is afraid having uncontrolled developments of the Qt
> > library introducing bugs in it thus giving bad reputation to the Qt
> > library.  
> >
> This is also why Netscape doesn't just GPL Communicator.  There is a
> substantial teem of programers who would be quite willing to spend time
> and effort smuggling little bugs into the source code if it were too
> open.
> In future years Linus will need to be increasingly vigilant to protect
> our Kernel from this kind of attack.

That is the official explanation: I think Netscpe is afraid of GPL
becuase GPL is irreversible.  But if I were a programmer wanting to
spend time in Netscape I would not like the perspective of having my
work confiscated by Netscape: I accept to work without pay for
humankind not for Netscape.  That is why I don't like the BSD license:
one day a company can take your work improve it a bit and then make it
a proprietary software.  With GPL they can sell it (not for much
because everyone can buy a copy and then resell copies cheaper) but
thet can't make it proprietary.  Because GPL prevents software
confiscation people would more willingly work on GPLed programs than
on programs with BSD license.

> >
> > The Qt free library is exactly the same than the commercial
> > version: it is not crippleware or second-rateware.  This deserves some
> > praises from the Linux community.
> >
> I have never herd them commended before.  just cringed from :(
> >
> > I hope we can work a formula like TrollTech issuing Qt 2 and then
> > allowing users modifying Qt 1 as long it is used in GPLed _UNIX_
> > programs.  Possibly the free QT1 getting a new name so bugs in freeQT1
> > don't alter the reputation of Qt2.
> >
> Another possibility.  I would like for them to keep the FreeQT
> substantially
> behind however so it would only be agrsivly developed if the commercial
> QT libs are closed ( new license ) or abandoned ( Troll gets bought by 
> Microsoft etc.. ) 

Yes find a formula than Troll Tech finds acceptable and than makes QT
license irreversible.  If Qt license were irreversible I would jump at
KDE.

> >
> > Another point is than I would not be ruling out KDE if that were the
> > only alternative.  In fact I was for having KDE as a stopgap solution
> > for 1998 until Miguel de Icaza mailed me than Gnome would be ready
> > this year.  And Fred Pesch affirms than eXode would be ready around
> > June.  I hope I will be able to persuade Fred to bend eXode towards an
> > end user desktop instead of an ultra-sophisticated desktop.
> >
> I would advise the GNOME people and the eXode crew to copy the KDE look
> as much as possible.  the Reasoning behind this is that KDE is by a
> large
> margin the most beautiful and smooth desktop I have sean.  My only
> problem 
> with it is that it's not complete.  The little things like the clock in 
> the corner being configurable are actually planed but waiting in the
> wings.

eXode is based on lesstiff so it looks like Motif.  KDE is a bit heavy
on 16M machines (too client-server oriented).

> >
> > > Did I say I really like KDE ?
> > Did I say me too?  :-)
> >
> It has been said that the only problems with KDE are legal.  It is
> a technically sound library ( not that I know what that means BUT only
> 1 major app shows a recurent bug. "KFM" )
> > 
> > Fortunately MetroLink is now selling a Motif runtime (only shared
> > libs) much cheaper.  Suse sells it for 99 DM (50-60$) here in Europe.
> > 
> That's more than a Linux distro.  In fact that + the $ 49.99 for some
> fully commercial distros is more expensive than Windows.  It's real
> difficult to convince somebody that a Linux distribution is not just
> an OS but includes a whole bunch of need apps.  In any case KDE is
> right now much nicer than Motif.  If QT were to do this modification 
> to the License we may yet see KDE as the #1 Desktop in the world. 
> That may still happen with the current license ( the KDE crowd shows
> no sign of slowing down ).

The Windows price you are thinking about is the priced of the upgrade
not the full version.

About Motif: it can seem expensive but consider this: it can be made
still cheaper when bundled with other software: a 50$ Motif could be
sold as a 25$ extra when bundled with commercial software needing it.
This would allow vendors of commercial software porting the Motif
apps they have written for commercial Unixes.

> >
> > would be payware in Windows but nobody told we would have to provide
> > him with first rate free software in every area.
> > 
> We don't ... but it is nice to spread the Range a bit.  i.e. I have a
> List of first rate DOS/Windows Software I wold like to see cloned on
> Linux / GPL.
> mIRC.  
> Quick Books./.MYOB
> Corel Word Perfect Office.

There is a Linux version of World Perfect.

> Mortal Combat 

The free softwre developping model is not very good for thayt kind of
apps: boring to program and for that kind of apps it is better to have
a first rate ergonomist than a programmer able to squeez the last
microsecond (excpt for Mortal Combet).  By the way you can play Quake
and Quake 2 for Linux and I have been told they are faster than the
versions for Windows.

> Will we ever see thise things ?  I don't know but ksIRC is rapidly 
> turning into mIRC for Linux, And I hear rumers of 2 full Office suits
> that are in early development and only people who claim to be developers
> are geting the sorce code for 1 of them.
> > > >
> > > > stupid the tradition of forcing people to learn VI just because it is
> > > > the traditional editor.
> > >
> > > Gee ... I thoght I was alone in the world.
> > 
> > Minix and Linux since 1991 and never used VI (Emacs rules!).  The only
> > thing I know of VI is how to exit.
> > 
> Lucky you.  My command for exiting vi works like this.
> alt+F2
> pidof vi
> kill ### ( where ### is the result from command 2 )

Two solutions :q (for a clean exit)

The other is CTRL-Z and then kill %1 (assumming you have no background
jobs).

-- 
			Jean Francois Martinez

The worthy man is the one who would drink muddy water if such were the
water of truth.