SEUL: Re: [lpr] A suggestion

[Roger Dingledine <arma@mit.edu>]

In message <Pine.LNX.3.96.981226133922.6227A-100000@escher.chaotika.net>, 
 kaosfere@escher.chaotika.net writes:
>> There are a lot of sites out there trying to advocate Linux, and it
>> would be a real shame for www.lpr.org to be just another one of them.
>
>Meta-advocacy is what I have had in mind from the start.  As you said
>yourself, there is *alot* of information out there, but very few sites
>that collate it all usefully.  What I've had in mind from the start was
>something that could be given is a meta-resource.  Instead of telling New
>Linux User Number 127 "Well, check out linux.org and freshmeat.net and
>slashsot.org" etc., ad infinitum, you an just say "Check out lpr.org.
>They'll point you to any and everything you could want to know."

Does www.linux.org fit your bill? Is it pretty close? You don't really
want to include freshmeat 'inside' the lpr, do you?

I think you're going to have to orient your site towards a specific
type of person, if you're going to have any hope of making it really
useful.

I can't stress this enough: pick a target user type, or a category
from my list (or make up a new one). Don't try to do everything for
everybody. It won't work. Everybody wants to see a site like that,
but it's damn tough to make one.

>I think we'd had a main framework to work from already, although I am sure
>it is always open to ammendment.  Let's see how your stuff fits in.

Yes, but you guys don't have the time to flesh out all of your framework.
Is it better to have a site that's really good and complete, or a site
with most of it saying "we'll get to this later", if you're looking at
from a user's perspective trying to get a first impression of Linux?

>> 1. advantages/disadvantages of using linux/free software,
>>  a. from the point of view of a techie
>>  b. from the point of view of a business person
>>  c. from the point of view of a manager (different?)
>>  d. from the point of view of an end-user (home, education, ...)
>
>opensource.org all the way.  We need to link 'em.

opensource.org is very far from accomplishing this category,
and esr is not trying to. In particular, he leaves out disadvantages
entirely, and doesn't go very far into the specific advantages of
Linux. He also presents Linux solely as "open source" software, and
not "free" software. One of my main efforts these days is reminding
people that it's the freedom that's important, not the fact that you
can look at the source. And that's becoming more and more important
these days -- Linux is going to win, but it won't be with free software,
or even open-source software. That will have to be the next step, far
down the road.
I've heard the Oracle guy say a whole lot about how great Linux is,
but have you seen any Oracle source?

>> 2. Often-seen FUD tactics and countermeasures
>
>I don't remember whre, but the Mining Co. had an article about that, I
>think.  Also, the several linux advocacy how-tos and such.

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9267/fud2.html
http://www.KenAndTed.com/KensBookmark/linux/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/9267/sstactics.html
http://www.linux-hw.com/~eric/fud101.html

and there are several others, i'm sure.

>> 3. Documents coaching Linux advocates on how to effectively convince
>>    other people of the benefits of free software. (different from 2?)
>
>Yes and no.  Maybe sub-categories of a larger one?  "PResenting Linux"?

things like the various 'linuxmanship' documents fall into this
category. It's different from fud.

>> 4. A list of all (!) the press articles about Linux, sorted (many
>>    different ways), annotated, and evaluated
>
>Oy vey.  That's enough for a mammoth shared effort itself.  I had
>suggested, previously, teaming with Linux News on this point.  

From what I've seen, most of the news projects have their hands pretty
full, just pulling in the new stuff and sorting it. They could definitely
use some help.

>> 5. A list of companies which offer Linux software or consulting
>
>There is a Linux COnsultants document in the LDP.  Not sure how current it
>is.  Lots of distribution lists, too.  I'l like to see (maybe this is
>something original we can do) a list of all the "other" software available
>for Linux (WordPerfect, ORacle, etc)

Most all current lists are outdated. It kind of sucks. :) Just
finding a list that was current and making sure it kept current
would be a very useful exercise.

>> 6. A list of commercial products which are sold for Linux
>
>ditto.
>
>> 7. A list of commercial products which ought to be sold for Linux,
>>    possibly including contact info for the relevant companies and
>>    reports on their current status of conversion.
>
>Hrm.  That's truly a good idea.  Were you thinking in terms of "commercial
>software which isn't yet, but should be, available for Linux"?

There are several "vote" pages, where you go and add your name to a
bunch of pages that say "we think it would be cool if there were a foo
available for Linux". The Linux Advocacy Project itself has one, tho 
I've never heard a peep from anybody at the project. I'm glad that part
of it is automated, else it would never get updated..:(

>> Anyway, it looks like you have, in terms of resources, several people who
>> like doing graphics and layout, and think Linux is neat and deserving of
>> some good publicity pages. Do any of the above topics interest you?
>
>Definitely.  As I have said before, I'm very busy with "real life" stuff
>right now, but in a week or two I hope to have more time to really kick
>ass on some good work.
>
>> Also -- I assume you know about http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~conradp/linux/pr
>/
>> which is the current "Linux PR Project"? (Though in their case, I think it's
>> press release, rather than public relations, so the namespace collision
>> won't be that bad.)
>
>I, personally, don't.  Will check it out.
>
>> Thanks for your time,
>
>And thank you for yours. :)
>
>> (anybody mind if I forward this to seul-pub? They'd be interested in seeing
>> it. How 'private' is lpr currently?)
>
>In my mind, we're not ready to be announced yet, but anyone who might have
>feedback, or be willing to help, is welcome to share.

Ok. I've forwarded the thread to seul-pub, so they can keep up with
what I'm doing here. I try to keep myself reasonably well-informed
of everything going on in Linux advocacy circles, but I sometimes forget
to tell the rest of seul. :)

>robt

--Roger