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Re: [tor-dev] [Tor2web] Proposal for improving social incentives for relay operators
On 10/06/14 22:42, Virgil Griffith wrote:
> General remarks:
> * I agree 100% with your Dec 2013 post.
> * All data I seek to make available in "Torati" is available from
> Onionoo.
>
> The proposal is to interface to Torati is like ATLAS but keyed by Tor
> nickname.
> * However, where Atlas intends primarily to be a reference, Torati aims
> to be social reputation
> incentivization for operators. So you'd want Torati to be seen by
> search engines using the user's
> nickname, e.g.,
> -- https://torati.torproject.org/TORTverLover
> * A given nickname's contributions would be the sum across the relays
> with that nickname.
>
> Which in for "TORTverLover" would sum the stats across:
> *
> https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/F2D3093388925780441433897F497797C5062B0B
> *
> https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/A8541EA02D2BBE97086BC7EF44A67E8FDA0C75A9
I like the idea of having a combined page for all relays run by a single
person or organization.
I'm less convinced that requiring all relays to use the same nickname
for this to work is a good idea. Consider the three relays run by Nos
Oignons: marcuse1, marcuse2, ekumen [0]. They wouldn't want to rename
their relays only to have a common page on your new service. Also, the
concept of naming authorities is about to be phased out [1], so better
not build new services that rely on nicknames.
[0] https://nos-oignons.net/Services/index.en.html
[1]
https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/blob/HEAD:/proposals/235-kill-named-flag.txt
As an alternative, how about accepting a relay fingerprint and showing
combined statistics for all relays in the same relay family? (A
positive side-effect would be that people have an incentive to configure
relay family settings, which the guy running the two TORTverLover relays
did not.) The URL would be:
https://yourservice/F2D3093388925780441433897F497797C5062B0B
Of course, you could allow people to register at your service and pick a
better name for their family of relays. You'd simply keep a
name-to-fingerprint mapping and use the fingerprint to query Onionoo.
And assuming the TORTverLover is the first to register that name, the
URL could indeed be:
https://yourservice/TORTverLover
So, it seems you can already build this with Onionoo's current
interface. But if you're missing something, please open a ticket!
> To answer your questions:
>
>> (The last link is a 404.)
>
> Try: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3308162/Iajya%202013.pdf
> But the most important papers are the first two I linked.
>
>
>> Why not make it entirely opt-in? We could include a subscription
> link in Weather's welcome messages that relay operators receive when
> their relay first receives the Stable flag.
>
> I greatly prefer opt-out over opt-in. Even if a Torati operator is in
> fact reputation-hungry, I don't want
> the opt-in mechanic to encourage him/her to be seen as reputation
> hungry. Moreover, as ATLAS isn't
> opt-in so I see no reason to deviate from that precedent as this is
> really just a "reverse-lookup" version
> of ATLAS.
True. Maybe drop the idea of opt-out then. The data that relays
publish about themselves are public, and relay operators should be aware
of that [2].
[2]
https://gitweb.torproject.org/tor.git/blob/HEAD:/src/config/torrc.sample.in#l123
>> Where does the name "Torati" originate from?
>
> The name "Torati" is a Tor-ified version of "digerati" or
> "illuminati". It's meant to convey something
> along the lines of "Tor Ninja". It's a positive term that one is
> proud to call oneself. The name was
> chosen as a component of the reputation social incentive.
Okay. See Andrew's concerns about avoiding words having "Tor" in them.
All the best,
Karsten
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