An excellent approach
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
julien.robin28@xxxxxxx
> Sent: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:16:53 +0100
> To:
tor-relays@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [tor-relays] Interrogated by Finnish
police for alleged
> idendity crimes, fraud and attempts of fraud
>
> Hi,
>
> With the 3 big exit nodes I had in France (about
30MB/s in both
> direction for each of them), I got called by police
a lot of time (may
> be 10 times approximately ? I do not really count
anymore) on
> investigations about misdeed that was committed
from IP addresses of my
> Tor relays (95.130.9.190 and 95.130.9.89 mainly, at
Digicube, not
> running anymore since June, 2015). No call about
the Online.net one
> (62.210.206.25, now Relay only since January,
2015), which was as big as
> the 2 others and Exit too, but the ISP is well
known as servers and
> website big provider in France so I guess they
realize it's an exit node
> before calling me. The "facts" were also, most of
the time, fraud and
> attempts of fraud but also slander one time.
>
> I was most of the time called as suspect because IP
are related to my
> name (because I was leasing those servers), as for
a home connection in
> their point of view (not aware that those IP are
dedicated servers IP).
> Then I simply explain this in appropriate terms.
After some times,
> depending on the agent, for new investigations I'm
sometimes "heard" as
> witness. And most of the time the meeting is fine.
>
> Each time, I explain that my servers are rented in
my name, and that I
> use them for volunteer participation to a free
proxies and VPN network
> called Tor. I then give some details and
explanations about what is Tor,
> who created it, what are the goals of the project
(about protection of
> _expression_ in bad countries and censorship
avoidance, by accessing the
> same Internet that others do, pricacy protection
too), and yes, the
> misuses... and that these are discouraging misuse
and it is not the
> reason why we participate in this network (far from
it !). Then I give
> the IP of those servers (and one of them is the
reason why they called
> me). And I explain that they are computers with a
very fast bandwidth,
> located in datacenters (Rennes, Vitry...) that can
be accessed and
> configured remotely, like a remote desktop.
>
> When they ask the question about logs and how to
find the author of the
> fact, my answer is that (unfortunately in that
case), Tor is designed as
> it's not possible for anybody to find who is the IP
address from where
> the traffic originated. It's very secure for those
who need to use it.
> Of course I tell them that if they have suspects in
the entourage of the
> victim, they can check if one of them was connected
to the Tor network
> at the time of the "fact" but as me and others
people are using Tor for
> online privacy without any intention of misuse
against anybody, using
> Tor is not a proof of misuse and is most of the
time not done for bad
> intention. Of course some questioning about a
suspect using Tor at the
> same hour would be rightful in this particular
situation, anyway (like I
> was questioned).
>
> All time I also come with a sheet of paper
explaining Tor a little bit
> deeply, what are the motivation of the teams and
people behind this
> project, (even in front of misuses that we are, of
course, not proud of
> having on the Tor network, even if without the Tor
network, those
> misuses would have been done by another way). In
France I
>
> Of course sometimes the agent is not very happy
about the Tor Network as
> the investigations is likely to fail because of the
Tor Network
> efficiency. When the misuse is real and obviously
bad, nobody can be
> happy of it !
>
> In all those cases, my words are honest and true;
as we shouldn't be
> ashamed of participating to projects aiming to a
better word and more
> freedom, but shouldn't be happy of misuses, my
personal preference is to
> be understanding and true. I also tell them that
I'm participating, with
> my computers, to others scientific projects like
World Community Grid
> (explaining it's about cancer research and a lot of
others subjects) :
> It can be seen as "not related" but it is, as
that's the way we are
> volunteers to the Tor Network !
>
>
> Here's for my feedback ! It's very personal of
course, I hope nobody
> would copy it without feeling it :) I'm just
expressing my own feeling
> on those situations, if it can help everybody to
better understand those
> cases.
>
> Best regards !
>
> Julien ROBIN
>
>
> On 31/10/2016 14:25, Juuso Lapinlampi wrote:
>> Putting the word out: I was interrogated by the
Finnish police today for
>> multiple alleged counts (15+) of identity
crimes, fraud and attempts of
>> fraud. The invitation letter to be interrogated
was sent out on
>> 2016-10-21 and received by me on 2016-10-25.
Today is 2016-10-31.
>>
>> The police suspects me because of an
"IP-address assigned to my name",
>> which I can't confirm or deny to have a
relation to me. As a suspect, I
>> was not told what this aclaimed IP-address was
on a specific date to my
>> knowledge. It is only speculation if these
allegations wrongly against
>> me have something to do with my relation with
the Tor community or
>> activism about digital rights online.
>>
>> Pending ongoing investigation, I am not allowed
by law to share more
>> specific details about to the investigation.
I'd be glad to reveal more
>> details about the case once the investigation
is over and share/hear how
>> I became a suspect, once I know about it. (Note
that my story is at
>> least slightly opinionated.)
>>
>> I had a witness with me and I feel like my
rights were being violated
>> during the interrogation. The officer (not to
be named publicly in
>> respect for privacy) didn't want to allow me to
write down their badge
>> number by taking the badge away from me while
trying to write down the
>> numbers. The officer looked slightly anxious.
>>
>> After refusing to comment on few questions (to
which I have a legal
>> right as a suspect), soon after me and my
belongings with me were
>> searched for aclaimed "security reasons" and
"making sure I'm not
>> recording this interrogation (with a phone)".
I'll let you decide on the
>> implications on unwarranted searches and
individual legal protection.
>> (See supreme court decision KKO:1990:36.)
>>
>> I audibly and multiple times in calm manner
protested to not consent to
>> searches, but alas it happened against my will
without being suspected
>> of wrongdoing at the police station in front of
my witness. I didn't
>> physically resist but also didn't voluntarily
help the officer.
>>
>> The officer asked me inappropriate questions
which were not related to
>> the investigation. I was asked about my
previous involvement with the
>> police, how much I knew about the law and
unsolicited advice about how
>> "it will be easier for me if I talked". I
demanded the officer to write
>> down every question since the beginning of
interrogation to the
>> interrogation minutes, including the
inappropriate ones, but the officer
>> refused, trying to make up a fake reason how
they were "irrelevant".
>>
>> The officer raised their voice once or twice
during the 45 minutes of
>> interrogation, apparently angry that I would
not "make a confession" or
>> "help out and tell more" to prove innocence.
Confronting the officer
>> again with a simple question "am I a suspect or
a witness" to confirm my
>> position, I was confirmed again that I was a
suspect in the case. Subtly
>> reminding that "I have my rights" that should
be respected, the officer
>> replied among the lines of "I have my rights
too" with disrespect.
>>
>> After the interrogation minutes did not
rightfully represent what was
>> actually questioned, the only sensible thing to
me was to not sign the
>> minutes. The officer after the officer made
threatening claims about how
>> I "would be going to court" over this, but
didn't spend too much effort
>> on trying to get my signature.
>>
>> Once the interrogation was concluded, the
officer made an unsolicited
>> comment of "gladly not seeing people like [me]
often". I told that I
>> would be in contact with my lawyers.
>>
>> I am glad that I was not detained in a cell or
arrested, which in my
>> opinion I can likely attribute to having a
witness with me. Looking back
>> at what just happened at the police station, I
should have demanded a
>> lawyer immediately to the interrogation after
having my rights violated,
>> but I'm relying on my witness for now to make a
testimony if necessary.
>>
>> I repeat that I absolutely deny being guilty of
any suspected crimes. Be
>> safe out there, tor-relays@ and all. (I have
legal support behind me and
>> have never been particularly worried about the
investigation or outcome
>> of this case.)
>>
>> Proof of invitation letter:
>>
https://wubthecaptain.eu/files/legal/2016-10-21-alleged-fraud-identity-crime.jpg
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>
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