On Wednesday, 16 September 2026 16:51 Alexander Hansen Færøy via tor-relays wrote: > I just spoke with Mike about this topic. For now, our advice is for > operators to split their families into two: one family for their bridges > and one family for their non-bridge relays (guard, middle, and exit nodes). Thanks Alex, I did it that way. On Monday, 14 September 2026 23:33 Roger Dingledine via tor-relays wrote: > * When clients use public Tor relays, the clients don't fetch the full > relay descriptors, so they can't see and verify the family-cert lines > from those relays, and that's why the directory authorities need to do > the verification and vouching. But for bridges, clients do fetch the > full bridge descriptor, so they can see the family-cert line themselves. > > * So (as I understand it) there weren't and won't be any changes needed > on Serge. > > * But I don't know if anybody actually programmed the part where clients > read the family-cert themselves and take it into account along with > the family-ids lines they see in relay microdescriptors. I suspect they > didn't, because of the design concern that Mike raised. > > * You could test this yourself, in practice, by configuring your client > to use a bridge that sets its family-cert, and watching your logs to > see whether your client notices it. OK, all my public bridges have had a family-key for about two weeks now. root@boldsuck:~# grep Bridge /var/lib/tor-instances/*/bridgelines a few dozen in Tor Browser 15.0.24 / Debian 13 (trixie) unfortunately nothing to see in logs :-) ... 2026-10-11 19:10:25.665 [NOTICE] Bridge 'ForPrivacyNETbr52' has both an IPv4 and an IPv6 address. Will prefer using its IPv4 address (203.0.113.52:1234) based on the configured Bridge address. 2026-10-11 19:10:25.665 [NOTICE] new bridge descriptor 'ForPrivacyNETbr52' (fresh): $fingerprint~ForPrivacyNETbr52 [fingerprint-ed25519] at 203.0.113.52 and [2001:db8::1:123] ... or Onionoo: https://onionoo.torproject.org/details?search=ForPrivacyNETbr or Collector: https://collector.torproject.org/recent/bridge-descriptors/ family-cert EMPTY Metrics: https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#search/ForPrivacyNETbr Family Certificate none I need to revert Bridges to `ciissversion:2`. Nusenu can't read the family-cert's anywhere, either. ;-) In German, we say: 'Das war für Nüsse' (That was a waste of time.) > * I don't see any downside to adding your family-cert to your > bridge. Clients may or may not know how to honor it yet, but that's > their problem, not your problem. > > * If C-Tor clients turn out to not have that feature yet (i.e. to not > know how to incorporate bridge family certs), it's reasonable to expect > that it will be a long while if ever before they get that support, > since we're focusing lately on LLM-derived security reports. But if > Arti doesn't have the feature yet, that sounds to me like a legitimate > feature request that the Arti people might be interested in. I don't have arti running, but I can send bridgelines to a trusted person for testing. -- ╰_╯ Ciao Marco! Debian GNU/Linux It's free software and it gives you freedom!
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