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Re: [tor-relays] Zwiebelfreunde: "shutting down more and more because, of lack of time"

when reading one of your previous emails in this thread  I realized that I probably never 
had a correct understanding of "Zwiebelfreunde e.V." vs "Torservers".

so maybe it is time for me to get a better understanding, would be great if
you could confirm, here is my latest understanding:

Zwiebelfreunde e.V. - https://www.zwiebelfreunde.de/ - 
 - an official legal entity
 - operates tor relays
 - is a LIR - https://www.ripe.net/membership/indices/data/de.zwf.html
 - (sometimes) gives IP address space to other big tor relay operators (F3Netze, MK)

Torservers - https://torservers.net/ - an informal umbrella project founded by Zwiebelfreunde e.V.
 - not a legal entity
 - does not operate any tor relays itself but Zwiebelfreunde e.V. uses the "torservers.net" domain
   on their relays
   [but torservers.net says: "We run managed and unmanaged nodes" and "Our goal is to run exit nodes"?]
 - has multiple partners that run their own infrastructure and relays


Moritz Bartl:
> On 9/17/18 11:24 AM, nusenu wrote:
>>> We have a bunch of exit relays on our own AS
>>> https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#search/185.220.102 and the NForce
>>> ones. We used to run more, but are shutting down more and more because
>>> of lack of time to properly maintain everything.
>> are you actively looking for other (trusted) entities to take over / help you with operations?
> 
> Yes. We have talked to people in person since before 2013. I have tried
> to get you on board several times

its sad I didn't realize (or can't recall?) that.

> for example to replace the website
> with a nice map of all torservers relays (by all partners), or a static
> map of all partner orgs. 
> We would need an issue tracker to dump all the
> ideas in, but it won't help if there is nobody with capacity to
> coordinate. We do NOT need a tech sysadmin; the sys admin is the
> smallest and easiest bit. 

ok than I misunderstood your earlier sentence ("but are shutting down more and more because
of lack of time to properly **maintain** everything."), so you are not specifically looking for technical
people but people coordinating things (what kind of things?)

> There is a lot of coordination necessary,
> because it is impossible to find someone to take over everything that is
> going on at once. We have spent countless hours on "trying to integrate
> new people" but if we lack the person(s) to coordinate, it is a lot of
> wasted effort for everyone. The alternative that I have been suggesting
> since 2014 is to "shut down" Torservers

Since I've seen the shutdown "notice" before I assume it won't be happening soon and sharply
but I still would like to get an understanding of the scope of the "shutdown".

When you say "shut down Torservers" is that limited to the umbrella project or
does that also include Zwiebelfreunde e.V.,  your relays and the RIPE membership/LIR 
(and therefore also affects those that make use of your IP space)?

kind regards,
nusenu

-- 
https://twitter.com/nusenu_
https://mastodon.social/@nusenu

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