Re: [tor-talk] Full integration with bitcoin (suggestion / feature request)

[Felipe Micaroni Lalli <micaroni+tor@xxxxxxxxx>]

Thank you Matt. I'm sorry if I didn't have a good idea, you were convincing.

I figured it could have implications for anonymity but imagined could exist
a solution (there is always). About the numbers, it was just a totally
random number, I'm sorry, I could used more real numbers as example.

The problem in charge (too much) an exit node is that no one would use
that. Imagine if all users set the max spending to "zero". In this case, it
would be useless to charge a exit node even with 1 Satoshi / MB because no
one would use it anyway. The market would find a good number, and my guess
is that would be ridiculously cheap to have a good number of exit nodes and
free would give almost the same experience as today we have.

It is not a matter of poor is less important, but create proper
incentives. For example: I'd like to run an exit node, but I'm pretty sure
if I do that the government here in Brazil will hunt me. It is very
dangerous to do that in Brazil. So, for me, it does not worth to risk it
for free. I'd put a very expensive price to my exit node because I want
little flow. Remember: I don't run an exit node anyway.

Well, if this is not good for Tor as it was designed, I guess I could make
a fork in Tor project and implement that, couldn't I?



Thank you!



On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Speak Freely <when2plus2is5@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> There are tons of problems with the suggestion, IMMHO.
>
> Good read:
> https://blog.torproject.org/category/tags/bitcoin
>
> I have very strong reservations about anyone suggesting internet fast
> lanes, or pay to play lanes.
>
> I run my relays for everyone, equally. If someone is poor, that doesn't
> mean they are any less important. For the purposes of Tor, chances are
> poor people match more closely to Tor's project goals. Based entirely on
> nothing but a guess, I would expect a poor person to be more willing, or
> more inclined to be a whistle blower, or more interested in political
> change, or more dedicated to social improvement, over a debutante
> dilettante. A very well off white guy in middle America suburbia has
> nothing to lose provided the status quo remains. A very poor person has
> nothing to gain from the status quo, so would tend to try to improve
> themselves, and others.
>
> It would also introduce fascinating attack vectors, as it would be
> relatively easy to determine who the "poor" people are vs who the "rich"
> people are, based simply on what a particular relay charges for it's
> service. The reduced anonymity set would present interesting problems.
>
> Assuming your numbers, at today's rate, 0.001BTC would be $0.23USD/MB
> ($0.28 for us Canadians).
> $0.23/MB@100GB/day = $23,000/day
> $0.23/MB@3TB(100GB*30)/month = $690,000/month
> That's a disturbingly good ROI, considering the cost for the operator
> would be anywhere between $3-15/month.
> (For a rich person to download a 1GB file, it would cost them $230.)
>
>
> Finally, attempting to monetize a system that is currently free as in
> beer, would not necessarily bring out the best in people. Sure, some
> operators would run their relays for free, but many wouldn't. When
> certain people realize that they could monetize the relay, what's to
> stop them from sniffing the data to make even more money?
>
>
> BUT, what do I know. Read the blog, it's much better written than my
> gibberish regarding this topic.
>
>
>
> Matt
> Speak Freely
>
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