Re: [tor-talk] Neal Krawetz's abcission proposal, and Tor's reputation

[Jon Tullett <jon.tullett@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 30 August 2017 at 15:02, Andreas Krey <a.krey@xxxxxx> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:41:52 +0000, Jon Tullett wrote:
> ...
>> And yet Facebook itself actively engages in censorship,
>
> Facebook is a house. Tor is a street.

Ah, a motoring analogy. Now we're back in my comfort zone! I have a
kinda Godwinesque theory that the probability that an IT discussion
will resort to a motoring analogy tends to 1 as the discussion goes
on. Only without killing the thread, cos we don't hate cars, or
something. OK, even my analogy analogy doesn't work. Sue me.


> A house can set house rules (although an argument
> can be made that facebook should not be able to,
> given its ubiquity).
>
> Streets shouldn't regulate which houses you visit.

Ah, but...groups of houses - communities - can and do. Homeowners
associations, rules on noise, speed limits, controlled access to
suburbs, crosswalks, vehicle regulations - brakes, seatbelts,
indicators. In fact, you've managed to pick an astoundingly regulated
example to illustrate how deregulation is good :)

And to pick out contemporaneous news, the spate of car-related
terrorism attacks in Europe are likely to lead to more road-related
controls, like bollards and roadblocks. That's kinda road-censorship
in this context, no?


>> and cooperates with law enforcement when legally required to do so.
>
> Tor operators will cooperate in the same frame, except they
> don't have much do hand over. (Ideally facebook shouldn't
> either, as signal does(n't).)

Weeeell. Sure. Except that the proposal here claims to be making life
difficult for operators of illegal services without sacrificing any of
the anonymity and security goals of the project. Presumably it's not
the only possible suggestion, and they may well all be complete crap,
but that's what I'm interested in. So, it's not a request to
compromise on the goals (though it might do so anyway - Alec seems to
think it would, and he would surely know better than me), and as such,
what does the project think of it, is kinda where I was coming from.

-J
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