Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.

["Naslund, Steve" <SNaslund@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

OK, I get it.  I think my BS detector is set to high today.  I am just
really suspicious that this guy that runs an large ISP can't at least
wait until there are charges before all the uproar.  I think if the cops
came and seized my home PCs right now I would probably give them the
time to look at them, realize there is nothing there, and give them back
to me before freaking out completely.  I would be wondering what was
going on but probably not raising a defense fund.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Kristolaitis [mailto:alter3d@xxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:21 PM
To: nanog@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.

I didn't say anything about trying to run away.  That probably won't 
accomplish a whole lot in the long run.   But when all of your bank 
accounts and credit cards are frozen, and your house is a crime scene,
at least you have the means to rent a hotel room, contact
family/lawyers, etc.

And no, I'm not OK with people keeping any money that was donated for a
specific purpose in excess of what was actually used.  You'd hope that
he'd be a good guy about it and give back the portion that wasn't used,
or clearly state that any excess will go to charity or something.  
However, there's no such guarantee (short of doing it through a trust
fund with his lawyer), and just like any philanthropic venture, it's up 
to each donor choose when/if they'll help out.   It's just like 
Kickstarter -- you hope to get something good out of it, but if it
bombs, well... you pay your money and you take your chances.

- Pete



On 11/30/2012 05:02 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> OK, there must be a lot more paranoid people out there than I thought 
> there were.  I personally don't have a "runaway kit" stashed away.  I 
> will get right on that. So when that "mouth breather cop" won't 
> believe you are innocent, your answer is to grab your stuff and go on 
> the lamb for awhile?  I am sure he will let you out to go to the bank,

> get your stuff, and leave town.  I think you have seen way to many
movies.
>
> So if the cops show up at his door tomorrow and say "Here's all your 
> stuff back, there was no evidence of a crime.", you are OK with this 
> guys keeping the "defense fund"?
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Kristolaitis [mailto:alter3d@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 3:53 PM
> To: nanog@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please 
> help if you can.
>
>
> On 11/30/2012 04:01 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
>>     I am a little concerned that this guy keeps a safe deposit box 
>> with a burner phone and cash around.  Is he a CIA agent? :)
> Anyone who DOESN'T have such things stashed away somewhere is, IMHO, 
> incredibly naive and taking on quite a large amount of risk.
>
> The likelihood (and hope) is that you'll never need it.  But on the 
> off chance that you get f***ed by the legal system because of some 
> power hungry, mouth-breather cop who can't/won't understand that 
> you've done nothing wrong -- or worse, that you're easily provably 
> within the law, but he "believes" that you're not and drags you 
> through the process anyways -- you'll be very happy that you stashed 
> away that old unlocked cell phone, old laptop, change of clothes and
cash.
>
> I'm a (legal) firearms owner... up here in Canada, where some previous

> governments enacted extreme anti-gun legislation, that pretty much 
> means that if I so much as sneeze in a way that a cop doesn't like, I 
> can have my life ruined pretty damned fast (not quite, but really 
> close).  I wouldn't bet against me having an 
> excrement-hitting-the-oscillator stash like this guy does.  ;)
>
> (Note:  I don't mean to imply that all cops are power hungry
> mouth-breathers intent on destroying the lives of citizens.   Most
cops
> are fundamentally good people and do a great job.  But like every 
> other profession, there ARE bad cops out there, and it's within the 
> realm of possibility that you'll deal with one of them one day.)
>
>> Why would I donate to his legal defense when he has not been charged 
>> yet?  A little premature, no?
>>
> If you think that legal costs in a criminal case only start when
you've
> been formally charged, you're grossly misinformed.   At what point you
> personally decide to donate is one thing, but implying that someone 
> doesn't need a defense fund prior to charges being laid is a bit naive

> about how the process works.
>
> - Pete
>
>
>


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