Re: [tor-talk] Tor Exit Operator convicted in Austrian lower court

[no.thing_to-hide@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

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I fully agree with Joe!

Running an exit can get you in serious legal trouble, because Tor /and
all other anonymity services/ will always be misused for illegal
activities. Every interested operator must make his personal moral
trade-off and come to a decision.
Sartre described such a discussion in a more extreme scenario in "Les
mains sales" (= Dirty hands)

Anyway, I decided not to run an exit but only an internal relay. And
to join German CCC and Zwiebelfreunde (Hello to the colleagues by the
way!). We operate really big relays, secured by professional admins.
Much better than I could setup at home as hobbyist w/o IT-education.
So you are an association and the legal risk and potential lawyer
costs are distributed.

Even the simple use of Tor is not w/o risk for everyday use:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.heise.de/ct/heft/2013-20--2248651.html%3Fview%3Dprint

I think one should have at least some basic knowledge about what the
Internet, SSL certificates, browsers, scripting and plugins are and
how they work.

Best regards

Anton
- -- 
no.thing_to-hide at cryptopathie dot eu
0x30C3CDF0, RSA 2048, 24 Mar 2014
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On 04/07/14 22:56, Joe Btfsplk wrote:
> On 7/3/2014 2:23 PM, C B wrote:
>> "I agree that collecting stories about "why/how I use Tor" is
>> useful, but I disagree that any special education or warning
>> should be needed before setting up an exit node. Setting up an
>> exit node is simply providing another IP that can be used for
>> traffic and nothing else."
>> 
> Holy... "they may not have a clue what danger lies ahead," Batman. 
> We're going to have to agree to disagree, that at least some basic
> info on potential dangers be supplied, if only links. We've all
> seen several people conversing on tor-talk now, that were run 
> through the ringer, for running Tor relays.
> 
> I don't think any of them thought they'd be fighting for their
> freedom; spending a huge part of savings to defend themselves or
> going through extended, true mental anguish of wondering if they'd
> lose their freedom & family.
> 
> Maybe Tor Project itself isn't the one that should be doing the 
> educating in this case - dunno. Though I don't like the thought of
> people going through hell on Earth, because they didn't understand
> the dangers, I also understand it's not in Tor Project's best
> interest to scare off relay operators.
> 
> One issue is, every Tor user is encouraged to run a relay.  Kind of
> like the US Army commercials promoting adventure & visiting foreign
> lands, instead of bullets & grenades coming at you.
> 
> Moritz, I'm not sure if the 1st FAQ at the link 
> https://www.torproject.org/eff/tor-legal-faq.html.en portrays an
> accurate picture of potential dangers:
> 
> 
>> "Has anyone ever been sued or prosecuted for running Tor?"
> 
> *>"No*, we aren't aware of anyone being sued or prosecuted in the
> United States just for running a Tor relay. Further, we believe
> that running a Tor relay --- including an exit relay that allows
> people to anonymously send and >receive traffic --- is legal under
> U.S. law."
> 
> That may need a bit of revision. :D  Maybe no one has been
> prosecuted in the US (I don't know), but people in other countries
> sure have. And being investigated or going through court hearings &
> trials - maybe for months or yrs, can destroy a person. It can be
> devastating, even if you're never formally charged.
> 
> Many people who've never gone through something like that can't
> fully understand the incredible stress of being investigated &
> threatened.
> 
> The concept of, "No one's been *prosecuted* in the US, therefore
> running Tor relays has no potentially serious legal ramifications,"
> is glossing over the dangers.
> 
> Running a relay may not be *the* most dangerous activity, but it
> sure carries significant risk.  Many that get tor-talk regularly
> have read that. But some potential relay operators might not read
> tor-talk every day for months, to read about someone that got in
> serious legal trouble, before they decide to / not to run a relay.
> 
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