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Re: [school-discuss] ZIS Severed Dreams, a question of Liberty

Knut Yrvin wrote:
> onsdag 23. januar 2002, 16:03, skrev Michael Williams:
> > I will seriously consider Edustructure, but I have reservations about the
> > use of Java and MySQL.
> What is your alternative? Its a bit confusing to reject things without
> talking about the alternative.

Perl or Tcl or even basic with postgreSQL
> > I am uncomfortable with the "free" word, I think it causes more confusion
> > than it's worth. I also don't think open source and commercial should
> > be mutually exclusive.
> My impression that this is more a problem for English-talking persons
> than for people in Europe. Europeans has to different word for free,
> liberty and gratis. In Norway free mean liberty, and gratis is what
> American's often think is free. You should call it liberty software
> (but you didn't). The main idea is that you get paid to do services,
> not to own your product so thight that your threatening the people who
> use your software with user blocs, and bureaucratic and automatic
> weakening of your privacy.

That is what I was talking about, the confusion that the word "free"
in english-talking persons.

> To day the schools are used as mean for an unsecure and owner-oriented
> politic that is a hindrance for learning. Learning demands openness,
> trust, and creativity. Openness is the fundament for learning, and in
> construction of all other technical things it is possible to inspect
> the plans, drawings and so on with no hindrance. This is done to make
> the constructions secure, and to protect life and property. Not the other
> way around.
> The price for this over-owning politics is that the closed parts of
> the computer-industry gives an unnecessary opening for exploits,
> viruses, and Internet-worms. It is not acceptable or understandable
> from a teacher or a pupils view. That they should live with a
> product-politic that weakening their platform for use of electronic
> learning material, and strengthening the protection of a industry who
> use the classroom as an gigantic product-training facility and a well
> paid exhibition-place for liberty-weakening solutions. Solution which
> learn kids to be consumers, not able to think for them selves, learn,
> and create.

I agree.

> All other construct-businesses use other ways to protect their work
> than keeping things closed - and they do it very well. If you look at
> the technology stock-exchanges around the wold, you will be surprised
> how many who build their products, or their solution on open
> technologies, and how few that earn money with great success on for
> instance Microsoft-technology or other closed source solutions. It all
> come down to trust, and that demands openness.
> Schools openness is the premiss for all kind of learning, teaching
> and creativity. It is this kind of creativity who creates the modern
> society. I could misinterpretate you, and ask if you are afraid for
> straight forward competition on the expense of the future. But I have
> a nagging suspicious feeling that many people has forgotten what
> earlier generation has given away to ensure the liberty who are the
> garantists for free (as in liberty), and well working societies. Not
> the other way around as for instance Microsoft advocates tries to
> persuade you. It has been proven that they who follows that part would
> not earn money other than to Microsoft, and you have to pay this bill
> when future generations has to learn to learn in grown opp age, not
> when they are growing up when its more easy, and more secure to help
> people to think for them selves.
> Sincerely
> Knut Yrvin

I believe whole-heartedly with open source, but I don't think it is
wrong for an open source project or company to make money. I support
*responsible* capitalism and if someone has a Open source product
that they are willing to support full time, I want to support that
product or project. Don't open source developers need to eat? :-)