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Re: [seul-edu] Packaging seul-edu apps?



On Thu, 24 Feb 2000, Roger R Dingledine wrote:
> I've been asking various groups for a few months now if they could grab
> the seul-edu applications and build rpms and debs out of them.
> 
> It suddenly occurred to me that lately we've had two distributions (Mandrake
> and Debian) coming to us thinking that linux in education is wonderful and
> is there anything they can do to help.
> 
> We've got a bunch of applications on our projects page and elsewhere. Many
> of them are just tarballs. I bet they'd get a lot more use (and thus a lot
> more testers -> more feedback -> faster development) if there were pretty
> packages available for the popular distribs out there.
> 
> Any interest, now that we've got a few distribs watching this list?

While Debian-Jr is about making Debian for children, not necessarily
education, there is sufficient overlap so that we are definitely
interested.  

We're in the process of trying to identify, first, what we have that
is suitable for children, and then what there is "out there" that is
suitable for children, so we can package it.

To kick off this effort, I have looked at the packages listed under

	http://www.seul.org/edu/software.html

I have checked the Debian status of each package, listing the Location on
http://www.debian.org/ if it is packaged, and adding any comments of my
own.  I have also checked the "not packaged" packages against the WNPP
(Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) list and added to the Comments if
it is listed under the "Packages that someone is working on" section: 

	http://www.debian.org/doc/prospective-packages.html

However, given the length of time most packages have been on this list,
appearance of a package on the list doesn't necessarily mean someone is
*actually* working on it ;)  Perhaps an email to the maintainer who
announced their ITP (Intent to Package) would spur them into action (or at
least give someone else a chance to package it).

I encourage others to add their own comments, and especially members of
Debian-Jr to consider whether they might adopt these packages and announce
a formal ITP on debian-devel.

First, the console apps:

	Package		Debian Status	Location/Notes
	-------		-------------	--------------
   01:  addpsx		not packaged
   02:  dvorak7min	packaged	/Packages/frozen/games/dvorak7min.html
   03:  FoSaT		not packaged
   04:  Glosan		not packaged
   05:  learn		not packaged	non-free, cannot appear in Debian main
   06:  lrnkana.pl	not packaged
   07:  Maxima		not packaged
   08:  multpsx		not packaged
   09:  nolan		not packaged
   10:  nut		not packaged
   11:  quiz		not packaged    there is a program called 'quiz' in
				        the bsdgames package, but I don't
				        think that's the same thing
   12:  Simpla		not packaged
   13:  SVT		not packaged
   14:  typespeed	packaged	/Packages/frozen/games/typespeed.html
   15:  typist		packaged	/Packages/frozen/games/typist.html
   16:  uspell		not packaged

Then, the X apps:

	 Package	Debian Status	Location/Notes
	 -------	-------------	--------------
    01:  Dr Geo		packaged	/Packages/frozen/math/drgeo.html
    02:  English - Slovak dictionary
			not packaged
    03:  First_math	not packaged
    04:  Free Physics	not packaged
    05:  GQuiz		not packaged
    06:  GRASS		not packaged	listed in WNPP, but no action on
					it for a year and a half!
				        Federico Di Gregorio (fog@debian.org)
				        (521 Days in Creation)
    07:  JTypist	not packaged	I'm the 'typist' maintainer, and
					this is on my personal todo list
					although I haven't announced a
					formal ITP (Intent to package)
    08:  Kibble		not packaged
    09:  KMol		not packaged
    10:  Learning Logic	not packaged	license unspecified
    11:  LingoTeach	not packaged
    12:  Lingvisto	not packaged
    13:  Linux Letters and Numbers
			packaged	/Packages/unstable/games/lletters.html
    14:  MuPAD		not packaged	non-free license (even for free trial)
					so cannot go in Debian main.
					Listed in WNPP but no action on it
					for nearly 3 years! Christian Meder
					(christian.meder@utoronto.ca)
				        (997 Days in Creation) 
    15:  NetMath	not packaged
    16:  Nightfall	not packaged
    17:  PingoS-Tipptrainer
			not packaged
    18:  QVocab		not packaged
    19:  Skill Literature
			not packaged
    20:  Solfege	not packaged	In WNPP, but not as an ITP (i.e.
					nobody has volunteered to package it)
					Appears in section "Programs that
					aren't available yet in Debian"
					but there has been an expressed
					interest to include them.
    21:  xletters	not packaged
    22:  xplanets	not packaged	Debian does have ssystem, though,
					which is a pretty slick solar
					system simulator.  I'm surprised
					it's not listed here.  (It's on
					Freshmeat, but categorized as
					"X11/Scientific Applications".
					Can Freshmeat enter an app into
					multiple categories?)

Finally, I have reviewed the list of SEUL/edu projects at:

	http://www.seul.org/edu/projects.html

Just curious ... why aren't these also listed at Slashdot?

I'll make a couple of general observations about this listing.  First,
it would be nice if the license were listed directly on this page.
Second, some of these are for school administrators, which puts them
outside of Debian-Jr's mandate.

Anyway, here's the status:

	Package		Debian Status	Location/Notes
	-------		-------------	--------------
	AUC		not packaged
	adhoc		not packaged
	WWW Cell Biology Course
			not packaged	license seems to restrict
					for-profit use, which makes this
					non-free & not eligible for Debian
					main
	Dr Geo		(listed above)
	EduML		not packaged
	Educational HOWTOs
			nothing to package yet?
	Experimental Math
			not packaged	SEUL/edu status:
					"development stalled; running but 
					not useful"
	GPeriodic	packaged	/Packages/frozen/misc/gperiodic.html
					Debian's version looks rather
					old.  Current is 1.2.6, but Debian
					only has 1.1.1
	K12Admin	not packaged
	KTeacher	not packaged	due to ongoing KDE license issues,
					Debian may not be able to include
					this (and it's for teachers, not
					for children, so not likely to
					interest Debian-Jr anyway)
	LUC		not packaged	depends on a lot of non-free
					packages, so it's unlikely Debian
					will ever be interested
	LearnLoop	not packaged
	LingoTeach	(listed above)
	The Open Book Project
			not packaged	we don't package Project Gutenberg
					either.  it's just too big, and
					it's easier to just direct people
					to Gutenberg itself and download
					the texts from there.
	ProMath		not packaged	anything to package yet? couldn't
					find it on the web page
	QZB		not packaged	still in design, nothing to
					package yet
	Roster		not packaged	

So there's my start at it.  I'll do the same with kidsgames shortly, and
also linuxforkids, and post these lists to the Debian-Jr page as I have
time to format them.

It would be nice if there were a more detailed system for listing packages
than Freshmeat - some place where a "Distribution status" for each distro
could be listed with the following fields (per distro):

- Status: "packaged", "not packaged", "in progress"
- Comments: comments from the distro as to status (could include link
	    to work-in-progress or discussion in public archive)
- Version: version(s) available for this distro
- Download: link to page(s) at distro web site where package(s) can be
	    downloaded

I'd like this sort of listing to be broader than just SEUL/edu listings
and encompass also "edutainment" or games & other packages suitable for
kids.  The question is, since such an effort would not only crossover
multiple projects (SEUL/edu, kidsgames, linuxforkids) but also multiple
distros (Debian-Jr, Mandrake, etc.) I'm not sure where it should be
hosted, or who would spearhead such an effort.  Perhaps Freshmeat itself
would consider extending their database with such "distro status" fields
to help developers and users alike to find versions for their particular
distro.  Or perhaps not -- they may see this as being the task of the
individual distros.  If someone wants a package for their distro, they
will likely get the most up-to-date info from their own distro.  The only
thing that they're missing is the comments of developers/users asking for
an "in progress" or "under consideration" package.  But it might be argued
that there is little value in such comments until something is actually
produced.  Well, I do ramble on.  I guess what I'm looking for is just
something a bit more organized than an emailed text-only list.  It need
not be as grandiose a plan as I have suggested -- simply something to save
the Debian-Jr developers some time & help keep things organized, and at
the same time might also be useful to other distros/projects.

Ben
-- 
    nSLUG       http://www.nslug.ns.ca      synrg@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca
    Debian      http://www.debian.org       synrg@debian.org
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