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[Computerbank] Re: [SAGE-AU] Fwd: Re: dealings with Microsoft

An interesting compilation of various things about the recent PC's for Kids isue that aired on A Current Affair and was in The Age.

also - did people see the info about the Northern territory education system adopting linux/Samba and Sta Office (on win desktops) for  primary schools.

Craig Silva, IT Infrastructure Coordinator
Moreland City Council, 90 Bell St. Coburg.
Melbourne. Victoria. 3058. Australia.
email: csilva@moreland.vic.gov.au 
Tel: +61 3 9 240 2355, fax: + 61 3 9 240 1212
For Fun: - http://www.sysadminday.com/

Step #1     http://www.deltasoft.com/opendos.htm    Free DOS
Step #2     http://www.deltasoft.com/Default.htm    Free Windows GUI
Step #3     Stop trying to beat Microsoft at the game they invented the
            rules for!
Step #4     Stop turning kids into Microsoft Windows crash test dummies,
            give them real software and let them figure it out

Note: Qnx have released a single disk internet desktop browser / email for
$free that is well worth a look..

Note: I've been rebuilding old Mac's from Clasic and above for years now and
        have found that kids running old versions of the MacOS don't care as
        long as the shareware games are not too lame, and they get all the
        wordprocessing, graphic design basics, and spreadsheet skills they
        need from free software for the Mac - and they tend to pick up lame
        software like Wintel Microsoft junk quicker as they are more used to
        using a wide range of software and a more varies scope of program


> Hello Everyone -
> This is a copy of an exchange of email I have had with Colin Bayes (contact
> details below),
> as a result of a report that aired on A Current Affair last night.
> If there is anyone on this list who is able to assist, I am sure Colin
> would like to hear from you.
>       Colin Bayes (President / Founder) Pc's for Kids Inc.
>       colin@pcsforkids.org
>       http://www.pcsforkids.org
> regards
> Hugh
>> ----------  Forwarded Message  ----------
>> Subject: Re: dealings with Microsoft
>> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:05:26 +1000
>> From: "Pc's for Kids Inc" <admin@pcsforkids.org>
>> To: <hugh@open.com.au>
>> Dear Hugh
>> Thank you for your email. The show on ACA is the 1st time we have gone
>> National on this issue - However I can tell you that it is reported in 26
>> countries around the world and this shows our loyal team that its a moral
>> issue to say the least.
>> Your comments have been echoed to all associated with our vital community
>> driven project.
>> Over the next few weeks we will respond to the comments noted within your
>> personal email - The overwhelming support shown by all who voiced their
>> opinion shows the world is very understanding.
>> Linux is one option open to the Pc's for Kids project - There are many who
>> voiced this to be a strong issue - Our assistants are trying to make this
>> happen as I write and this new wave is a whole new learning curve for us
>> all. If you have any packages that can suit our listed systems please duly
>> advise?
>> Our project has 3 main products we distribute to kids:
>> 1. 486 SX Machines 8MB and 300 HDD (These go to assist Rotary in their
>> Donations In Kind Project to Pacific Islands)
>> 2. 486 DX Series with the 16mb and a 420 HDD (We send these to very young
>> children to the age of 10)
>> 3. Low End Pentium 75 / 90 / 100 / 120 / 133 / 166 these have a full package
>> provided - CD / 16MB / 850 HDD Min / Sound / and 56.6 Modem. (This is our
>> most requested and addresses 100% of most children needs)
>> If you have Dos 6.22 with Windows 3.11 or Windows 95/98 with Reg Books
>> laying around or other parts or items that can assist - we invite your
>> donation.
>> (Microsoft) MS is in our schools and kids understand this very well - Our
>> concern is support needed in many locations should we be forced to alter our
>> systems OS.
>> These Q&A will be raised when the time comes - But we must face and stand up
>> to MS - For the issues that the Press reported and other key factors.
>> We take the liberty to let you read a report from New Zealand that shows the
>> heavy-handed nature of this market leader - If we do not stand up and voice
>> our concerns many more Charities around the world will close their doors.
>> Let's face it - What we did was not LEGAL and Microsoft will not take this
>> matter into account on past acts - But in the eye of the public we are a
>> Charity trying to assist our next generation. If the big boys want to tackle
>> a charity for the sake of Greed and starve the Less Fortunate Children then
>> we ALL have problems.
>> We write this reply to you and call it "Freeware" please feel free to post
>> it and let's all let the Big-Boys understand that we do care.
>> Thanks again,
>> Kind regards,
>> Colin Bayes (President / Founder) Pc's for Kids Inc.
>> colin@pcsforkids.org
>> http://www.pcsforkids.org
>> Computer licensing hurts school scheme
>> 05.06.2001 By ADAM GIFFORD
>> Microsoft's aggressive licensing tactics are putting at risk a scheme
>> to put computers in schools, says the head of a computer recycling
>> company.
>> Bob Lye, the managing director of Ark Recycling, said the world's
>> largest software company had already captured a big chunk of the
>> budget by double dipping on operating system licences.
>> "Microsoft says when you buy a computer you must have an operating
>> system licence. Fair enough," Mr Lye said.
>> "When you replace a Machine, they then say that licence stays with
>> machine, so you have to buy a new licence for the new machine.
>> "When they dispose of the old machine, the new owner is told they
>> can't use the licence and have to buy a new one. This country is being
>> screwed blind."
>> It has become a major issue because Microsoft has announced it will
>> cease selling new licences for the Windows 95 operating system.
>> Many of the computers Ark puts into schools do not have the memory or
>> hard disk capacity to run a newer operating system, but are capable of
>> running all the applications a student needs on Windows 95.
>> Mr Lye said the corporates who donated or sold old computers to Ark
>> had often paid for licences several times through forced upgrades
>> needed to keep pace with Microsoft's application upgrades - a forced
>> obsolescence policy.
>> "Word processing is still functionally identical to version two, but
>> people are being forced to pay for tinsel."
>> Under a scheme promoted by Computer Access New Zealand (CANZ), Ark
>> sold schools a refurbished Pentium for $395, he said. It included a
>> copy of Windows 95, for which the Education Ministry paid Microsoft
>> $225.
>> "These are machines for which someone paid for an existing licence,"
>> Mr Lye said.
>> Microsoft New Zealand OEM manager Brett Roberts, who is in charge of
>> licensing issues, said operating systems could be reused if the
>> recyclers had the original certificate of authenticity.
>> Mr Lye said that was impractical, as the licence documents were
>> usually stored away from the computer and often got lost or thrown
>> out.
>> Mr Roberts said it was more likely the licences were transferred to
>> other machines, or sold on the black market. "It's rare people would
>> deliberately destroy product. There's a thriving trade on [auction
>> site] Ebay in secondhand licences."
>> Mr Lye said no such trade existed in New Zealand, and as there was no
>> upgrade path from Windows 95 to Windows 98 it was highly unlikely the
>> licence was still in use.
>> The problem seemed to be confined to New Zealand, he said.
>> "In the United States the re-cyclers just reinstall Windows 95 Version
>> B on all Pentiums."
>> CANZ chairman Lawrence Zwimpfer said overseas recyclers were appalled
>> their colleagues here were forced to pay Microsoft.
>> "I suspect the Microsoft team here are more vigorous defenders of
>> their licences than elsewhere," Mr Zwimpfer said.
>> CANZ had been negotiating with Microsoft about the Windows 95
>> obsolescence issue, and agreement had been reached with New Zealand
>> head Geoff Lawrie for recyclers to continue installing Windows 95 if
>> they paid for Windows 98 licences.
>> Mr Zwimpfer said Microsoft's new practice of making the authentication
>> certificate a sticker to be placed on the machine would make recycling
>> easier.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Hugh Irvine" <hugh@open.com.au>
>> To: <admin@pcsforkids.org>
>> Cc: <hugh@irvine.com.au>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:41 AM
>> Subject: dealings with Microsoft
>>> Hello -
>>> I saw the report on the television news last night about your difficulties
>>> with Microsoft, and I would like to strongly encourage you to consider an
>>> alternative approach which is to install Linux instead.
>>> Indeed, Linux or any other of the free software distributions which are
>>> available to run on older PC style hardware, are *much* better tools as
>> the
>>> source code is included and users will actually be able to learn what goes
>> on
>>> with their machines (instead of becoming Microsoft dummies).
>>> I personally have never been a Microsoft user and I strongly encourage
>> anyone
>>> to consider the excellent alternatives that are now available.
>>> If you would like to contact me, here are my details:
>>> Hugh Irvine
>>> POBox 2202
>>> Caulfield Junction 3161
>>> Tel: +61 3 9596 0793
>>> Email: hugh@irvine.com.au
>>> best regards
>>> Hugh
>>> --
>>> Radiator: the most portable, flexible and configurable RADIUS server
>>> anywhere. Available on *NIX, *BSD, Windows 95/98/2000, NT, MacOS X.
>>> -
>>> Nets: internetwork inventory and management - graphical, extensible,
>>> flexible with hardware, software, platform and database independence.
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Radiator: the most portable, flexible and configurable RADIUS server
>> anywhere. Available on *NIX, *BSD, Windows 95/98/2000, NT, MacOS X.
>> -
>> Nets: internetwork inventory and management - graphical, extensible,
>> flexible with hardware, software, platform and database independence.

Dez Blanchfield
Principal / Chief Executive Officer
Cradle Technologies (Australia) Limited

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