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Re: gEDA-user: Windows version of gerbv
At 03:25 PM 4/22/2008, Stuart Brorson wrote:
>Hi --
>
>On Tue, 22 Apr 2008, Rick Collins wrote:
> > Thanks for the response.
>
>My pleasure! Yer welcome!
>
> > At 12:06 PM 4/22/2008, you wrote:
> >>> I tried installing the current version of gerbv under Win2K SP4. It
> >>> installed ok and started. But when I tried opening a Gerber file it
> >>> crashed. It also crashed when I opened an XYRS file. Is there
> >>> something else I need to do?
> >>
> >> What did it say when it crashed? And what version of windows are you
> >> using?
> >
> > It gave...
> >
> > ---------------------------
> > Gerber Viewer2.0.1: : gerbv.exe - Application Error
> > ---------------------------
> > The instruction at "0x6b067700" referenced memory at "0x00000000".
> > The memory could not be "read".
>
>Oh oh. Referencing a NULL pointer somewhere. I have run valgrind on
>gerbv in the past to find and eliminate these types of problems, but
>maybe something we changed recently does this. Or maybe Windows makes
>this happen. Or maybe GTK on Windows is not a happy beast.....
>
> > Click on OK to terminate the program
> > Click on CANCEL to debug the program
> > ---------------------------
> > OK Cancel
> > ---------------------------
> >
> > I am running the most recent version which I had just downloaded, 2.0.1.
>
>That's the only version for Windows we have.
>
>Hey -- are you running on a 64 bit machine by any chance?
No, I am running on a tired old Athalon 1600. It sounds like there
is no hope for me at this time.
> >> There is no standard for the pick-place file. Each machine vendor has
> >> its own file format. Fortunately, most formats are just ASCII CSV
> >> with X, Y, rotation and side info recorded in a human readible
> >> format. Gerbv tries to guess what your pick/place file looks like,
> >> but it is not omniscient.
> >
> > Yes, I am learning that XYRS is not in any way a standard. Are there
> > any conventions for how to interpret the data? Where is the 0,0
> > point assumed? What is the 0 degree reference? Which *way* does the
> > rotation go, CW or CCW? I guess you can get the 0,0 reference from
> > the Gerbers, but how does the assembly house translate this to the
> > board? I assume that again, there is no standard.
>
>As far as I know, there is no convention or standard for any of this.
>Your best bet is to ask your fab house for the particulars of the
>machine they use.
They seem to be uniquely clueless about the data formats or what
assumptions the machine makes. I said I would check with the maker
of their machine and they said to let them know what I find out. It
is a small mom and pop shop. I go there because they are close and
convenient. I have not had this trouble with them before, but I
guess I haven't done auto place with them since they got the new
machine. I guess we'll learn together.
> >>> My assembly house is telling me that my XYRS file has the rotations
> >>> backwards, but it seems to me that the reference is arbitrary.
> >>
> >> Interesting..... What sense do they use to define rotations? CW or
> >> CCW?
> >
> > I'm going over there now to discuss this with them. It resulted in
> > my pretty, pretty prototypes being mangled by hand unsoldering and
> > resoldering... :^(
>
>:-(
>
> > I'm off! I'll let you know what I find.
>
>If they're amenable to divulging some info about the XYRS format they
>require, please share it with the list.
I found this info at the Essemtec web site.
http://www.essemtec.com/e/docs/CAD-DATA-Transfer-English.pdf
The make some useful recommendations, but still leave a few gaps,
direction of rotation for example. They actually recommend
consistency in your reference frames rather than dictating one. But
their example is for pin one to be in the lower left corner for 0
degree rotation. That jives with the file I gave them. On the other
hand, I downloaded a program called SMT-Maestro which allows you to
view your XYRS data and it shows all of the chips reversed. So I am
still not getting it. I will try contacting the owner of that program.
So what does gerbv assume for a frame of reference??? It has to know
were 0,0 is, but I expect that comes from the Gerber files. I don't
know how the ATE operators set it. It has to know 0 degrees; sounds
like pin 1 lower left is the standard. It has to know the direction
of rotation; Bruce Parham has told me that it is counter clockwise by
convention (he wrote the XYRS generator used with FreePCB).
So how does Gerbv resolve these reference settings?
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