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Re: gEDA-user: PCB footprint mapping

To: geda-user@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: PCB footprint mapping
From: Karel Kulhavy <clock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:01:52 +0100
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Delivery-date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 06:33:32 -0500
In-reply-to: <20060221130559.033FB2AA07@earl-grey.cloud9.net>
References: <20060221124816.8119.qmail@web26006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <20060221130559.033FB2AA07@earl-grey.cloud9.net>
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On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 08:05:59AM -0500, Stuart Brorson wrote:
> I'll chime in here.
> 
> gedasymbols.org was put up by Marvin Dickens after he posted a query
> about places to find symbols and footprints for gEDA/PCB.  Since there
> was (and still is) no central repository for these things, I
> challenged him to create a site (as I recall), and he rose to the
> challenge & created it.  Unfortunately, he didn't have enough time to
> flesh out the site. Marvin issued a call for volunteers to help with
> the site, but it looks like nobody stepped forward,  Meanwhile, John
> Luciani put up his big footprint archive.  Also, most gschem symbols

Which is useless for being included in PCB because doesn't have GPL licence.
And useless for User Controlled Technology because doesn't permit
commercial distribution (I don't care if someone redistributes my GFDL
files commercially or not as long as he sticks to the GFDL licence).

> come bundled with gEDA/gaf, and an upload mechanism is in place on

I think all available symbols should be bundled with gEDA/gaf. They
don't take up much space and the engineer needs to have the symbols
in one place and is not interested in spending extra time browsing the
web, downloading symbol archives etc.

> seul.org for contributed symbols. 
> 
> I can feel Marvin's disappointment w.r.t. the response to his call for
> volunteers.  But my experience with open-source is similar:  some
> people participate, but most sit back and enjoy the freebies without
> contributing.  And that's fine, since it's part of the bargin you make

My experience on Ronja is different - I design something, publish the
price, volunteers eventually pay it and I release it and it works fine
and everyone is happy and the risk that it stops working is reduced
compared to situation where there is actually no motivation to do it.

If noone needs it and doesn't contribute then it's my fault - I
shouldn't develop things which are useless.

If some people seriously need it and the others don't and want it for
fun, then those serious needers pay and those other have it as freebies.

If someone tries to use it as a freebie and actually needs it then he's
motivated to pay it, because if he pays, he gets it sooner.

I think it's quite fair. More fair that the usual system without payment
where the developers work hard, don't get anything and all people have
it as a freebie no matter if they seriously need it or not.

And it is compatible with the idea of free software - that the source
should be free for everyone.

CL<

> as an open-source contributor: you know ahead of time that most people
> can't or won't contribute.
> 
> Anyway, I'd suggest to Marvin that if some volunteer steps up to take
> over the site, perhaps he could just transfer it to the new
> volunteer?  If you, Biff, are willing to take over the domain and make
> it into something, why don't you contact Marvin directly?  It would be
> sad to see a potential gEDA resource get taken over by one of those
> stupid faux portal sites, or a porn site [1]. 
> 
> Stuart
> 
> [1]  I suppose that I could take it over too, but I already have a lot
> of gEDA stuff hosted on my vanity domain.  Also, I don't have time 
> anymore ...  But perhaps in the fullness of time this could become a
> project of the Free Dog Foundation (or the gEDA Foundation) once we
> incorporate it & get a donation system up and going.  Hmmm ...
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > gedasymbols (as a domain name) is cool, however the links suck, and it pr=
> > ovides almost
> > no information, especially for the noob :-(.  There are three dead links =
> > on the first
> > page.  Even if nothing is hosted on it, it could at least point to the wi=
> > ki, and some of
> > the links posted to this list. =20
> > 
> > Who hosts it?  Do they have to pay for bandwidth?  What OS is running?
> > 
> > It looks like about 30 minutes work would result in considerable improvem=
> > ent.  If someone
> > wants to give me shell access (or whatever is needed for changing the lin=
> > ks) I=20
> > can have a go.  (Send me PM if you like).
> > 
> > cheers,
> > 
> > -biff.
> > 
> > --- Phil Taylor <phil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > 
> > >=20
> > > Karel I agree that the s/n is an issue that geda/PCB faces.  It is a re=
> > al
> > > issue.
> > >=20
> > > I do suppose though, that I would warm up to your comments about scrapp=
> > ing
> > > gedasymbols (which isn't even your work) if you had some other recommen=
> > dation.
> > >
> > > What are you doing, besides your salvos of improvement suggestions, to =
> > better
> > > the symbol/footprint system for geda/pcb?
> > >=20
> > > Phil
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Karel Kulhavy <clock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >=20
> > > > On Sun, Feb 19, 2006 at 07:32:50PM +0100, kmk wrote:
> > > > > Phil Taylor wrote:
> > > > > > Karel Kulhavy <clock@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > >>I suggest also "Finally, a special-purpose website has been creat=
> > ed to
> > > > > >>distribute gEDA symbols and footprints: http://www.gedasymbols.or=
> > g/, but
> > > > > >>it currently needs donations." to be deleted from
> > > > > >>http://geda.seul.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=3Dgeda:pcb_tips
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > uhh, why not find out what's happening with that site ...
> > > >=20
> > > > Why? To increase the signal to noise ratio. See
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_overload
> > > > "Large amounts of currently available information, a high rate of new
> > > > information being added, contradictions in available information, a l=
> > ow
> > > > signal-to-noise ratio, and inefficient methods for comparing and
> > > > processing different kinds of information can all contribute to this
> > > > effect."
> > > >=20
> > > > CL<
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Right now, the wiki seems to imply that www.gedasymbols.org is a pl=
> > ace
> > > > > where symbols created by users can be retrieved. Actually this is n=
> > ot
> > > > > possible. This sheds an unfavorable light on the project as a whole=
> > . In
> > > > > fact, when I first looked at geda and got to this dead end, I got t=
> > he
> > > > > impression that geda is one of these infamous abandoned open source
> > > > > projects.
> > > > >=20
> > > > > On the other hand, there is
> > > http://geda.seul.org/tools/symbols/contrib.html
> > > > > If I understand Ales correctly, this is currently the way to go to
> > > > > donate a symbol.
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > > instead of trying to censor a wiki?
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Well, it is not really a wiki. Outsiders like me cannot log in and
> > > > > change  the content.  I'd be willing to improve the advice for newb=
> > ies...
> > > > >=20
> > > > > ---<(kaimartin)>---
> > > > > --=20
> > > > > Kai-Martin Knaak
> > > > > kmk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Blog: http://lilalaser.dyndns.org/blog
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 	=09
> > ___________________________________________________________=20
> > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.=
> > co.uk/blackberry
> >

References:
- Re: gEDA-user: PCB footprint mapping
  - From: bifferos
- Re: gEDA-user: PCB footprint mapping
  - From: Stuart Brorson

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