Re: [kidsgames] SMLUC on Kidsgames

[Jeff Waddell <jeff@smluc.org>]

Hi honey :)

On Sun, 31 Oct 1999 cwaddell@mail.orion.org wrote:

-->Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:50:47 -0600 (CST)
-->From: cwaddell@mail.orion.org
-->To: kidsgames@smluc.org
-->Subject: [kidsgames] SMLUC on Kidsgames
-->
-->Hello,
-->Here are my notes from the Nov. 23 Meeting, in Springfield
-->MO of the Southern Missouri Linux Users Club.
-->

Thanks for taking these notes, I hope to have more of these meetings soon.
I encourage others set up meetings, either at public meetings like your
local Linux User's Group meetings or privately with friends and family to
gather information about what it is that people REALLY want their
educational games to do, both from the point of view of the children AND
the adults, and to report WHATEVER you find out from these meetings to us
here, so the developer's and the user's can meet at least virtually :)

-->Kids know what they want. 
--> 
-->By content, Jeff means Facts we want kids to know.
-->

This is true, content to me is linked to what we want presented to the
user (pupil), it's linked to my notions of web content, the presented data
on the web page.  It is something that is rendered to a display.  At the
same time it is something that is probably taken from a large pool of data
like a database query.  Some of you understood what I just said I hope, if
so, re explain it to everybody else.  I know that I'm getting a lot of
feedback from people saying they don't know what I mean by content and
I've run out of ways to describe it and how it's divided from the tools
that act on it....

-->By games, he means Code and Interface. -->

hhmmm, I suppose......

-->*********************************
-->Rolpher the Gopher Game
-->
-->This game idea is a grocery store.  You make a list and come
-->in, then you pick up your items.  At the checkout, it is an
-->addition game.  You add up you items and pay Rolpher.  
-->**********************************

Clare drew a crude picture of Rolpher and I seem to have lost it....I want
to scan it present it to you all, it's nice that she WANTS to put creative
energy into this....

-->Science Experiments
-->
-->This game idea will tell you how to do experiments at home,
-->and allow you to do more difficult or dangerous ones in
-->simulation on the computer.
-->

On a side note, Clare got a program (for Windows unfortunately) called
CoolCrafts for Christmas and she really likes it.  It isn't necessarily
"science" experiments but it walks you through several craft creations
that are kind of neat.  This game is similar to what I think we are trying
to create with the Science experiment.

-->Rolpher has feet, he is not a stick figure.
-->  He has a brown
-->pig nose, 2 dog legs, people looking hands.  He is all
-->brown with floppy dog ears.  He has 2 teeth like a rabbit.
-->White teeth that hang out in front, buckteeth.  His tummy is
-->like a real gophers, big and round.
--> 

Any graphics people that can put that description into form?

-->********************************** 
-->Build it NOW
-->
-->Use blocks to build pictured models, or your own creations,
-->such as a helicopter or plane.

The LEOCad mentioned  seems to be a great potential for having this one
already one the way.....

-->**********************************
-->Dress up
-->in the theatre or church 
-->a place to dress up and do plays--write scripts and do plays
-->
-->Japaneese Kiss?
-->

There is a Japanese program called French Kiss (don't ask me why) that I
THINK I got from the BSD archives.....I can look it up if nobody can find
it.  It let's you dress up an Anime figure with various clothes, it's kind
of neat, but I don't have it handy at the moment.  It would be nice if
someone could take a look at this and evaluate whether it can be useful to
our project....

-->**********************************
-->A building/planning game with cars and soldiers.
-->
-->**********************************
-->

I mentioned the little ztrack program.  It really isn't much but it could
be hacked upon quickly by a knowledgeable gtk person I think.....

-->Lobbying Questions
-->
-->Do we want to ask software companies to port current
-->kidsgames to linux??
-->
-->Well, whatever, but the focus for the group at the meeting
-->was writing and promoting well written and well thought out
-->games.

There are I think a couple of drives to get commercial proprietary 
applications, games and hardware drivers ported to linux.  I think it
would make sense to join those efforts for any software we want to see
ported and as stated above keep this group focused on generating "well
written and well thought out games"

-->**********************************
--> -->We discussed using stickers to teach science concepts.  For
-->example, putting together a spider or building a pulley
-->system to lift a large object.
-->
-->*********************************
-->
-->xjig will take any gif and make it into a puzzle
-->
-->we would like to see any picture format supported.
-->
-->**********************************
-->We do not like repeated talking.
-->
-->For example,   "Are you ready to play with Elmo?  Elmo is
-->waiting for you."
-->
-->every 30 seconds is Annoying.
-->*********************************
-->Can we build voice activated games??
-->
-->Would k voice control help with this??
-->*********************************
-->Jeff would like to see major skill level scaling-- to the
-->point of being the Grocery Store Manager in Rolpher
-->
-->(In my opinion, how scalable a game is will be left up to
-->the individual writer and how they think.   I do not think
-->we will have the same games for teens as elementary kids.)
-->
-->**********************************
-->Logo
-->
-->Jeff's idea for logo, is to have it set up with simple
-->controls, such as go right, go left, go up, turn, etc.
-->
-->This will draw on the screen, kind of like spiralgraph or
-->turtle.  
-->At the SAME time, the code for creating this picture will
-->appear in a window next to the drawing.  We hope that the
-->users will get tired of the simple controls, and move into
-->programming.  An early foundation in basic programming logic
-->should help them move into other programming languages.
-->*********************************
-->
-->Jeff thinks we have code people, and we need content people.
-->
-->Art content  -- describe what you want
-->Action content 
-->Science
-->Math 
-->Language Arts
-->History
-->Animation
-->etc.
-->We would like a leader in each area.
-->
-->People who do quake are also needed.
-->*******************************
-->Animation tools
-->What do you know about gimp & blender?
-->
-->********************************
-->PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
-->Put your kid's ideas on this list!!!

I'm surprised I have seen NONE of this on the list.  Do the people on the
list not have kids or just have not had a chance to do this?  I think this
is one of THE most important things we need to do because the KIDS are
Ultimately OUR end user's.  Yes the parents are our end user's too (at
least in the sense that our games need to have teacher/parent level tools 
to make them customizable to the given pupil), but the primary focus is
on the kids.

-->*********************************
-->We do want to trademark leading characters.
-->*********************************
-->These ideas are from about 10 people, including 3 kids.  I
-->apologize for taking so long to get this on the list.  
-->
-->We will do our best to IRC future meetings if possible.
-->

I hope this happens...

Somebody remind of where the irc room is... hardcore.org or something?  I
know it's in the archive, but I think we should set up a time to discuss
some of this stuff in real time to see what shakes out.....Anybody got a
time.  For me I think I could make an IRC chat session about about 10p my
time (Central Standard Time USA) -6 (or is it +?) Greenwich time I think,
tommorrow [or is that today? oopsss] night (1/20/2000).  If I can't make
that I'll email the list.  If that's too soon, then please make alternate
suggestions.

It's way too late in the morning, I'll have to continue this stuff later.

Sincerely,

Jeff Waddell
jeff@smluc.org

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