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Re: [kidsgames] a Mom's eye view



Erik wrote:

> The problem with rpm's and debs and binary packages are there're so damn many
> of 'em and they're a pain in the butt. I don't release my software in any of
> those formats because I simply don't have the time to learn the formats. I
> depend on people who know the formats to volunteer my time to produce the
> debs and various breeds of rpm's.

Yes - exactly.  I don't produce RPM's, etc either - I rely on SuSE,
RedHat, Debian and others to do that.

You can get RPM's of all my software (for free) from those people - but
they'll never have the latest versions because organizing that stuff
takes time.
 
> the kids games section on sourceforge should probably have a map of projects.
> Then 'rolpher the gopher' could have a page and be linked from the kids games
> page, so potential developers can peruse at their will. Only dispensing your
> idea to people who ask you about them is probably not an effective way to
> recruit.

So far, the only known effective way to recruit is to write a small (but
playable) part of your game and show it to the world.  If people get
excited about it, they'll join.
 
> > Ahhh, now this is the real problem.  It takes lots of time and teamwork to
> > make
> > a full blown commercial game whether win' or lin',  so how do you get a bunch
> > of independent (you wouldn't be in linux if you weren't), progammers and such
> > to work on a project over the long haul with out promise of payout in the end
> > (assuming GPL'd) and with a purpose to work together in a certain direction?
> > Linux's flexibility seems to work against it here.

I don't think Linux has much to do with it - there are OpenSource projects
for lots of OS's.

Getting people to work on things is not as hard as you might think - but
getting them to work on the things YOU WANT THEM TO WORK ON is a vastly
different matter!

> I've worked with people and have had no problem working as a group, even tho we
> were all highly egotistical and had very definite (and different) ideas. The
> usual way it works is there are very very few core developers (1, 2, sometimes
> even 3). The core developers stick with the project for fairly long times. Then
> there are a series of short term developers, they usually stick around long
> enough to offer one patch, sometimes two. As far as progamming, this works well
> even for games. Level designers, vox ppl, artists, etc are not present in most
> open source game development groups. The closest I've seen was "I can scan some
> pictures from my ski trip".

Yes - exactly my experience.
 
> Linux's flexibility is not the problem, and I think we're fine in the coding
> dept. We lack in the other depts. If you look at game companies, there are more
> graphic artists than programmers, and usually at least as many sound people as
> programmers. I'm not saying that game programmers are exceptional people who do
> their work much more effeciently, I'm saying that the art of creating games
> relies very heavily on the efforts of graphic and sound artists. And we don't
> have them.

Yep.
 

> > See above.  I am not a programmer, but I applaude all those who contribute to
> > linux and the games that are out there.  I am an end user who sometimes
> > wonder
> > why I spend so much time getting things to work in Linux.  It is a challenge,
> > a
> > different feeling than 'doze and I do love the O/S.
> >
> 
> programmers are not the hottest commodity in linux software development,
> *ESPECIALLY* games.

Indeed.
 
> Good project leaders are important, people who can arbitrate and keep
> everything on track, programming skill would be a plus, but not necessary.

I disagree.  Programmers would be unlikely to be happy to be dictated to
by a non-technical person.  Managing an OpenSource group is nothing like
managing a normal business activity.  You MUST work by keeping everyone
happy - the very first time you tell someone you don't like what they
are doing, you'll have a battle on your hands.  Leaders only get to
become leaders because people recognise them as such.  Usually, the
leader has to be the person who contributed the most code.

Perhaps an artist or musician could take over the role of leader in
a working project - but I don't think you could get people going
that way initially.
 
> Graphic and audio artists are rare and extremely important. There are lots of
> games that are good ideas and good code, but the graphics and sound make the
> game a peice of crap.

Yes - absolutely...but freeware musicians are rare and freeware artists
seem to be virtually non-existant.
 
> Documentation is also incredibly important. One of the joys of independant
> development is that we're not required to write good documentation. But in the
> end, that documentation is very important. Things like user manuals, readmes,
> API documentation, webpages, etc. all have to be written.

Actually, enough programmers do actually enjoy writing documents to make this
work.
 
> Idea people are important. Not just "I have a good idea for a game", but level
> designers, puzzle designers, people to design the details.

Yes - exactly.  But if they *only* produce ideas, they'll find it hard to
sell people on them.  You need to have ideas *and* paint - or code or model
in 3D or something.

> The biggest problem
> I've seen with idea people is they think they have the worlds greatest idea,
> and they think a couple cryptic sentances will make everyone see they're
> geniouses.

Yes!  I've seen that dozens and dozens of times.  It's very painful to
have to burst their bubble - but there is no doubt that you have to do
much more than have the idea in order to make it in the Opensource world
because so much is done by reputation and 'sweat equity'.

However, if you can get as far as getting something simple actually
working, you'll get people volunteering to add sound to it - or
build in networking or something.

-- 
Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
sjbaker1@airmail.net (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
sjbaker@hti.com      (work)


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