Re: [kidsgames] Status

[Jeffery Douglas Waddell <jeff@smluc.org>]

Hello Roman,

On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, malonowa wrote:

> Can anyone give me a detailed status report as to how things are going here.
> 

I'll do my best.  Please everyone else correct me where I'm wrong and add
to where my answers are insufficient.

> For example, has anyone started on a design for a program.

As I have discovered there are several already in the works and we have
started in a general sense to combine and enhance these.  Some include
Steve Bakers' Tux: A Quest for Herring and Paul Kienzkle (sp?) Sticker's
project, and Ryan Gordon's Toby langauge.  (I am sure I missed A BUNCH of
people, please SPEAK UP :) 

> Has "scalable" been defined yet - after reading things, I'm still at a
>loss as to what this term means here - perhaps a comprehensive definition
>could be put at the website. 
>

I'll take the blame for that.  I've have at least two distinct things in
mind when I say "scalable" so I'll try to clarify that here.  If you know
a better way to say what I'm saying please do say it and if possible add
it to the FAQ o matic on the website.  In case it is not clear the
faq o matic allows anyone who sets up a free account to add answers
to it.  Anyway the first thing I mean when
I say scalable is that the games are scalable across skill level.  I.E. if
someone sits down with our game (or one of our games) then the game will
be usable to them and fun for them almost regardless of what skill level
they are at in that particular subject.  The second thing I mean is that
it is scalable in the sense that the games can be used from one user to
some huge (probably non-infinite ;) number.  I realize some games can't be
THAT scalable so it's a goal to shoot for not necessarily one that can be
hit.  If there are other "scalable" definitions running around, please let
us discuss them here as I don't hold any kind of monoply on the concept...
:)
  
> I've seen much discussion about various technologies but to my mind,
> we usually
> design programs
> before we discuss technologies that could be used.
> 

I agree to some extent, however one of the problems that we are facing is
to realize what tools are availabe and which one's we will have to
create to make the creation of our specific games and kids games in
general a reality.  I WANT (I realize I may not be able to get this) a
toolkit from which a non technical person can create (and/or add) to our
lexicon of games.  To my mind this means an educational SDK and a Kids
Game Builder wizard type thing which is built upon it.  This need
SPECIFICATIONS, and I've already (perhaps not successfully) attempted to
start the discussions on what those specifications should be.  We
especially need input from the intended user's of the game builder
application, i.e. parents, teachers, and other not necessarily technical
people.  Any suggestions on how to gather that input?

> Let's not fall into the trap of endless technical discussion and
> lose sight of what everyone is really trying to achieve.
> 

I completely agree with your statement.  THE goal is educational games for
our children that are open and hopefully fun too :).  I've been debating
with myself for a few days about whether or not we need to divide the
mailing list into a technical mailing list for discussion of code, sdk's,
specific applications, etc. and another for discussion of non technical
data such as pictures, movies, animations, sounds, text, etc (what I tend
to call content, which I've had more than one person be confused about, is
there a better term for this data?)  I just don't know.  The list is still
relatively small (around 50) and if I split it now the likelihood that
the spec./code designers will miss some important needs of the
artists/writers goes up. On the other hand, the technical nature of most
of the posts is potentially driving away the artists/writers away?!  Any
thoughts on how to handle that phenomenon?

> I'd also like to know if developed software is supposed
> to be entirely developed using Linux.

I personally don't care what is used to build content as long as the
content (as I tried to explain content above) remains free.  I also don't
care what you used to create the code as long as the code is free.  This
means that proprietary formats (like gif) are probably a no no, but using
photoshop to create a .jpg is not, for instance.  Also if you want to use
a proprietary editor to edit the source that's fine,
but the code needs to be able to compile with a compiler that is available
to everyone (it can ALSO compile on compilers that are not free, but it
MUST compile with freely available one's). I hope that Linux will be the
platform of choice but it is not a requirement.  Anyone else have thoughts
or feelings about this.  Something to realize here is that if you have an
especially favorite to for creating sound/animation or whatever that does
not let you use a non-proprietary output file format, I for one am willing
to convert the resulting closed file format file into something open.

> Since you mention multimedia, does anyone here have
> experience developing animations and video - does anyone know what is 
> available for linux users to develop this sort of content.

Not yet.  I've been told that blender may be a very useful tool on the
openGL side of things but I've not more than opened it, so I don't know
yet.  Can anyone volunteer to check out blender's capabilities for at
least the 3d animation possibilities?  This gets back to the the Kids Game
Builder application.  As far as sound I've personally used Rosegarden for
midi sound files as well as SoundStudio for recording live sound.  I find
them to be useful, but I don't know if they can be used by most people or
not.

> I'd be very 
> interested to see just how everyone intends to approach this area.
> 

Communicate, Communicate, Communicate.  As hard as it may be to do, it's
what we must do, so that we all get what we each want out of this project.
It is OURS!

I haven't said much in the past few days here on the list because I've
been way too busy, and I think I talk too much anyway.

> Are there any primary school teachers here?
> 

Not me...I hope we have some and will get more we need their input as time
goes by....

> Best of luck to everyone.
> 

:)

> Roman.
> 
> 


Thank you Roman for some provocative questions.  As Eric Raymond says "was
that a responsive answer?"

Oh, would you mind giving a short introduction so we have a little idea of
your perspective.... Thanks!

Sincerely,


Jeff Waddell
jeff@smluc.org

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