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Re: Tux Racer 0.10 Released

On Sun, 19 Mar 2000, Steve Baker wrote:

> > Amen. Tux AQFH and the "lemmings like" tux whatever...
> Pingus.

Yes. I am sorry about the tone of "whatever..." - I simply could not
remember the name.

> > ...is two projects I have
> > yet to figure out how to compile. At some points I have spend most of a
> > day trying to get them to work, and have finally given up. And, as you
> > state it always seems to be the support libraries that are the problem.
> But if you don't tell anyone, it'll never get any better. 

I am painfully aware, but...

> I would never
> spend as long as even an hour trying to get a game to compile.  Collect up
> the error messages and post them to the appropriate mailing list...unless
> it's really an obvious problem with something you've mis-installed somewhere
> else.

Actually, part of the reason I do not tell you, is because I do not want
to burden you with incomplete bug reports.

> I take pride in the fact that every single person who has emailed
> the Tux_AQFH list asking for help with compiling has gone away with
> a working game (at least if their hardware can support it)...even people
> trying to get it to work on Mac's, Alpha's, MIPS and other more obscure
> Linux ports.
> In pretty much every case, compilation fails because of a mis-configured
> Linux box - but when it's not, I get the chance to fix things so that life
> gradually gets easier.

In my case I _do_ suspect a problem with my configuration. I have more
versions of Mesa installed then I dare to count. Problem is that I have
quake, quake2, quake3 and ut working (dual v2, glide, mesa3dfx), and I
dare not mess to much around with mesas for fear of breaking these games.
OTOH I do not want to give bug reports that I am not certain about.

> > I have similar problems with getting "Tuxracer" going - it segfaults when
> > glut wants to initialise. (This is 0.11.1 - no version so far has worked
> > for me). OTOH XRacer worked out of the box from version 0.11 or something.
> > 
> > Of course it is - for me - a matter of time and _someday_ I _am_ going to
> > get it to work, but you loose some people in the proces, when they have to
> > collect 13 different pieces and use days to set up support libraries to
> > get it to work.
> Well, that's hard to fix.


> If you want 3D graphics, you pretty much have to depend on Mesa and either
> GLUT or FLTK or something...that in turn means you may depend on GLIDE and/or
> some Xfree version or other.  Tux_AQFH also depends on PLIB - but that's all.
> Apart from the underlying infrastructure that I can do nothing about, I depend
> on a single additional piece...that's not unreasonable IMHO.

I was mostly thinking of pingus here. If I am not mistaken, Pingus relies
on clanlib, that relies on hermes and a couple of other things.

> Gradually, Linux distro's are bundling PLIB with their CD's - so if (for
> example) you install SuSE Linux and ask for Tux_AQFH to be installed, PLIB
> gets put on your machine automagically.

Maybe I should change to SuSE. Seems it is getting more and more popular
these days, and they do have tons of RPMS.

> I don't produce RPM's and such because it's a LOT of trouble to do so - and
> the Linux distro guys are good at that.  Since they make profit from doing
> this, I don't feel any compunction at letting them do the work.

If I ever get Tux_AQFH going, I could probably supply you with a spec file
for rh6.x that would make rpm building trivial.

> At any rate, if your system has Mesa and GLUT correctly installed,

It does work with quake{1,2,3} and have been known to work with ut,
xracer, etc.

> PLIB and
> Tux install *VERY* easily with a standard set of './configure ; make install'
> commands that are really no harder than installing an RPM.

These went fine (retried it yesterday) - it does however segfault for me.
Which confirms my impression that I currently have a misconfigured
system. Which makes me reluctant to make a bug report until I have figured
out what is wrong.

> If Mesa and GLUT are NOT correctly installed then you are screwed with or
> without RPM's.


> One thing that's going to help a LOT is the new standard "The OpenGL ABI
> for Linux":
>   http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/
> > And, BTW, my daytime job involves writing linux kernel drivers. Not that
> > it qualifies me to anything, but I think I should know how to compile...
> Well, tell me what went wrong - without that information, I'm powerless
> to help (or even know that something went wrong for that matter).  The
> statement that "I couldn't get it to compile" contains virtually zero
> information.
> Read this:
>   http://freshmeat.net/news/2000/02/26/951627540.html

I used to write freeware for Windows. I have not read it yet (I will) but
I suspect I may be aware of the contents.

Summary: My posting yesterday was _not_ a bug report for neither Pingus,
Tux_AQFH or Tuxracer. It was simply a confirmation that "compile troubles
_do_ stop people from checking things out and reduces the number of
potential developers". I believe this is a more common problem than one
would think, but I have no real solution to this. One thing that could
help was test programs - but isn't ./configure supposed to take care of

I regret beeing this unconstructive. At some point I _will_ make these
games work on my system and maybe then I will be able to provide valuable


P.S. Steve: I do have a bug rapport for your website: when I checked it
yesterday, I could not retreive the screenshots. (404 on sourceforge).

Mads Bondo Dydensborg.                               madsdyd@challenge.dk
Pretty cool, the kind of power information technology puts in our hands
these days. 
    - Securityfocus on probing 36000000 hosts for known problems in 3 weeks

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