Re: [tor-talk] Until there's a REAL effing way to communicate, that evey1 can use, I'm DONE

["Asa Rossoff" <asa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

More direct responses:
>From: Cat S
>Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:14 PM
>To: tor-talk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> "real solution" = discussion forum
I elaborated on my disagreement in the message I just sent.

> I'm going to start an account at stack exchange and try my damndest to
> make my question in the top: 
> "Why won't the Tor Project support user-friendly form of anonymous 
> communication - i.e., a discussion forum?"

Great! Thanks.  Your responses will be from techies though.  Only techies
use Stack Exchange.

> Otherwise, decrease the lag time between when a message is posted on the
mailing-list and when it reaches my inbox.

I didn't notice this issue, but I will keep en eye on it and check message
headers (my mail goes through several servers even after reach my domain at
present) and see if I see significant lag.  Email has more lag due to the
way most mail clients work/are configured mostly, but certainly Tor's
listserv may need a fix in this regard.  But in terms of instant messaging,
#1 are "instant messaging" programs, especially ones that use peer-to-peer
connections, #2 are social media sites and similar more isolated platforms,
and #3 are forums -- if you monitor them and refresh the page with one hand
constantly.  Now, Tor could put an html5 proxied IRC client on their home
page that gave a "chat sidebar" that was tech-knowledge-nonrequired.  There
are codes out there for this already I believe.  Or a non-proxied one tht
depended on Java or something (also available already), but that's counter
to Tor's objectives, wouldn't work in TBB and is not as friendly anyway.

> I mean, what the hell?! Why does it take so effing long for an e-mail to
reach my inbox when it's been up on the mailing-list for quite a while?!

Again, I haven't noticed this.  How long is "quite a while" ?
Check your full message headers when you get the message and see if you can
spot a delay at yoru email provider or something.

> The Tor Project needs someone who ONLY cares about Tor's users, not about
the code per se.

Should be easy enough to recruit people for such goals I would think, since
there are a lot more people that care about Tor than there are people who
know how to code.

Sounds like more resources for website development might be good too.

> (as techies already now how to use these programs, the prole you're
> trying to help generally DO NOT - I know this because I teach many
> people how to use TBB).

And of all similar projects, Tor has so far done the best job of being
user-friendly and the best job of PR with the public.  So there is work to
be done... Maybe I can help?  Maybe you can help?

Great by-by-the-way that you have not only evangelized but helped people
learn about Tor.

Privacy needs to be made more simple.  Some of the thing to duo that are
highliy technical and behindd the scenes.  A lot of it is a cultural
fight-back to the anti-privacy motivations of the capitizing of the
internet, and the fact that privacy was not a design goal in the underlying
pdesign of the internet.  And the fact that besides the capitilist
motivations for capitilizing on profiling people and their data, there is
also the natural tendency for all governments to want to know as much as
possible about their population (oh, and other people and governments) as
they can get away with.

But in the "free world" (greatly overstated) it is clearly a cultural war,
and PR and evangilism might be one of the most important aspects.
Accessibility of alternative ways to meet the "needs" that people now expect
of communication technology that fit with a more human-rights-oriented model
requires a lot of thought and coding, a lot of PR, and a lot of innovation.
The WWW took off almost unexpectedly.  Maybe we can review research (or
perform research) on how this was sold to the public...  Same with other
innovations, like the iPhone. Wow.  Many wonderful innovations fall
relatively flat, even with substantial resources behind them.  Some thhat
come to mind because they did BETTER than most innovations but not well
enough: laser discs, betamax.... Linux is an interesting mixed success.
Started as a very small project that was just awesome, and later
distributions were created to market it to the general public with a fair
bit of notice, but there are ongoing problems that have not been solved to
make is user-friendly enough, esp. when people want to buy and steal things
like giant thousands of dollars software packages from Adobe and Micosoft
(well, not they're trying to get people to lease the stuff ..don't get me
started... those and other companies have been working hard to end
"property" (except they're own IP) for years, and this is just the next
stage).

******
It's a war and mobilization and organizing of techies and non-techies alike
is what's needed.
******

Asa

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