Re: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror

[Zenaan Harkness <zen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 12:47:15PM +0200, malte@xxxxxxx wrote:
> Quoting carlo von lynX (2016-06-08 08:28:23)
> > The problem is, if the victims have committed crimes themselves
> > by making their stories public, then going before a judge may
> > backfire on them. Not just fake victims, also real victims.
> > They may get prosecuted for defamation on top of having suffered
> > a crime. We know that the justice system may not be able to
> > punish even a true offender if no legal proof can be produced.
> > So if you want victims to feel safe to talk to the authorities,
> > you must keep them from committing a counter-crime.
> 
> ???
> 
> > That's why I am in favor of pre-emptive management of social
> > issues (aka "vibes watching") and a more fine-grained justice
> > system internal to the hacktivist movement. A court made of
> > people we trust that victims can turn to safely, without 
> > engaging in further crimes, yet enabling that court to take 
> > measures to protect future people from becoming victims.
> 
> You mean like "Someone is abrasive on mailing lists all. the. time. 
> Let's talk to them about it in private, oh they are still abrasive,
> let's talk to them in private, oh, now they are writing weirdly
> misogynistic things, let's not let that stand unchallenged, suddenly
> they are implicitly threatening you with physical violence.", that
> kind of thing?
> 
> Where would you go, and what would you do, if you felt physically
> threatened by someone, and that same person would be discussing
> how to design systems to deal with such situations?

A very good question. Not many have answers, especially those who have
suffered in such situations.

Unfortunately "SJW" has taken on some denigrating meanings, since quite a
few SJW poseurs have popped up here and there and often times ended up
creating problems, which have in some online communities persisted for
years.

An answer?

Fistly, identify if someone is being bullied, and second, if the target of
the bully appears strong enough to handle the "bully".

If not, or if you are unsure, talk with the targetted one offlist and
check in to see if they're ok or would like any offlist ear to talk to.

For the one who is conscientious, such communication comes naturally and
hopefully contributes to a stronger, all around warmer community.

Those who just love to go at it hammer and tong at each other, well,
perhaps sit back and enjoy the view, and if the view is too personally
distressing to you, consider Ye Goode Olde Kille File - it's not that
hard to change the view. I personally find it difficult to restrain myself
from leaping into the fray on one side, then the other, rather than simply
sit back and enjoy the view. I personally really enjoy it when individuals
are strong enough to joust back and forth, and back, and forth, then do it
all again tomorrow. Can't get much better entertainment.

Thirdly, if you feel that you personally are being targetted by a bully
and that you are finding it challenging, or really not coping, I suggest
saying less where possible and reasonable, and identifying one or more
individuals whom you consider would be receptive to you and listen to you
with empathy.

NOW, if you are unable to identify such a receptive, empathetic individual
within your chosen community, you are going to find it tough going and I
don't have much more in the way of suggestions for you, other than to find
a community with like minded individuals. Forums are not so difficult to
create these days, and if ultimately your version of a warm and caring
community requires moderation, you may have to experience that pathway in
your own little online community to discover how that goes...

Good luck
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