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Re: [tor-talk] Blacklists

Use services that don't block Tor. Tell the other operator why you are leaving. Ask admins or poke any adress you find from a website that is important to you, that blocks us, why they are doing so. Tell your friends to use TBB, it's awesome how useable is it nowadays. They should just "click to play" flashplayer and just about anyone can use it. It's the best browser there is. Tor Browsers have to become visible to (still?) friendly website operators.

It's annoying sometimes but overall I know why I'm doing it and I keep doing it. It's tiny steps but the only steps to a situation (maybe) where every private home connection can be an Exit and the Internet doesn't react in any way to it. I'm glad the torproject offers to "discriminate" Tor users, it can be done anyways. I just hope it becomes less and less affordable.

Am 11.03.2014 14:06 schrieb Praedor Tempus:
I think the thinking needs re-thinking. ÂTor becomes less and less
useful, and less and less attractive to users as more and more sites
block tor. ÂThe diminishing returns feeds itself. ÂMore people quit
using tor because many or most of the sites they are interested in
prevent them from viewing them, fewer and fewer relays are provided as
people quit tor, tor becomes weaker and weaker. ÂRinse, repeat.Â

I do not think sites should be able to simply block classes of
traffic just because they want to. ÂBlocking a spammer is one thing,
it is a response to a single demonstrable negative action but blocking
an entire class is what anti-discrimination laws in the real world are
used to stop. ÂBecause it is unjust and simply bad. ÂWhy should it be
different on the internet? Carve out the internet from basic societal
rules/laws so discrimination by class is perfectly OK? Â

I'm merely stating that the simple ability to make a quick and easy
setting change in the exit is all that is needed, not an automatic and
broad default change to tor exit behaviors. Â

Responding to growing blacklists by shrugging one's shoulders and
saying, "Oh well, you're wrong to do so but...oh well" is not a
functional response. ÂIt is a promise of less and less usefulness of
tor...unless the ultimate goal is to provide, in the end, just an
anonymous chat infrastructure since that seems to be the ultimate end
point as sites block tor in greater numbers.

 From: krishna e bera <keb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: tor-talk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Blacklists

On 14-03-10 06:37 PM, Praedor Tempus wrote:

I was wondering...would a change to tor exits so they direct through public proxies/anonymizers get around black lists? The tor user would still be anonymized but the ultimate source address seen by blacklisting websites would NOT be a tor exit so blocking tor exits would fail...

Is this too simple? Perhaps add a setting that those who run exits could configure so their exit routes to a proxy?Â

The FAQ gives 3 reasons why Torproject doesnt encourage that particular
solution to blocking of Tor:

To quote therefrom:

a.  We can't help but make the information available, since Tor
clients need to use it to pick their paths. So if the "blockers" want
it, they can get it anyway. Further, even if we didn't tell clients
about the list of relays directly, somebody could still make a lot of
connections through Tor to a test site and build a list of the addresses
they see.

b.  If people want to block us, we believe that they should be allowed to do so. Obviously, we would prefer for everybody to allow Tor users to connect to them, but people have the right to decide who their services
should allow connections from, and if they want to block anonymous
users, they can.

c.  Being blockable also has tactical advantages: it may be a
persuasive response to website maintainers who feel threatened by Tor.
Giving them the option may inspire them to stop and think about whether
they really want to eliminate private access to their system, and if
not, what other options they might have. The time they might otherwise
have spent blocking Tor, they may instead spend rethinking their overall
approach to privacy and anonymity.

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