Re: [tor-talk] Silk Road taken down by FBI

[shadowOps07 <shadow.unit.x@xxxxxxxxx>]

What kind of VPN provider did he use?


On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:27 PM, mirimir <mirimir@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On 10/04/2013 12:44 AM, shadowOps07 wrote:
>
> > Yeah, but the country doesn't have the release the log to the fascist
> > police state just because "Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty" is in place.
> > They have the MORAL obligation to disregard the treaty. US is in no
> > position to demand obligations from other countries. Rather, MLAT is a
> > farce.
>
> Well, then, he picked the wrong country for his VPN provider. He also
> picked the wrong country for his hosting provider. And he didn't keep
> himself anonymous enough from either one.
>
> If we're going to be throwing blame around, I think that Mr. Ulbricht
> deserves most of it. In my opinion, he misled perhaps a million people
> into using his site. One could consider them fools, of course. They
> provided names and addresses to drug dealers, and eventually to the FBI.
> But is it fair to expect users to understand the technical and
> operational challenges involved? I don't think so.
>
> But, as much as I enjoy debating this, it has nothing to do with Tor ;)
>
> > On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 7:58 PM, mirimir <mirimir@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/03/2013 11:33 PM, shadowOps07 wrote:
> >>
> >>> Was the VPN located in the US? If not, then FBI doesn't have any
> >>> jurisdiction outside of US.
> >>
> >> On p. 14 of UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf, there's reference to a
> >> "Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty".
> >>
> >>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 6:54 PM, Roger Dingledine <arma@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Thu, Oct 03, 2013 at 08:58:57PM +0000, mirimir wrote:
> >>>>> So they did have the server before they knew who he was.
> >>>>
> >>>> Careful there -- while I assume they didn't lie in their affidavit,
> it's
> >>>> quite reasonable to assume that they investigated all sorts of things,
> >>>> all sorts of ways, and then afterwards chose to write down exactly the
> >>>> set of facts that when lined up in the correct order makes it look
> like
> >>>> a clean solid case.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's a slippery slope from there to 'parallel construction', but I
> think
> >>>> it's standard practice to start with some leads and use them to find
> >>>> more solid facts, and it's also standard practice to not mention all
> >>>> your leads in your affidavit.
> >>>>
> >>>> To be more concrete, their job here is to link the guy to the website.
> >>>> So if they had a pretty good idea of who the guy was, but not enough
> >>>> evidence to bust him, it makes sense to me that they would go find one
> >>>> of the servers, collect all the evidence they can from it, and hope
> >>>> to find something specific that points back at the guy. And who knows,
> >>>> maybe they did that several times before they found something they
> liked
> >>>> enough to build a case from it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Your theory that "he was sold out by one of his administrators" also
> >>>> fits fine here -- the administrators pointed to the guy but then they
> >>>> needed to build a solid-looking case.
> >>>>
> >>>>> We also knew
> >>>>> that he was sold out by his VPN provider. Hopefully, the identity of
> >>>>> that VPN provider will come out soon.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why? So everybody can abandon that VPN and move to a different one
> that
> >>>> also responds to subpoenas but hasn't been written about in a
> >> high-profile
> >>>> court case yet? :)
> >>>>
> >>>> --Roger
> >>>>
> >>>> --
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> >>>>
> >>
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