Re: [tor-talk] Micropayment embedded in circuit building? New idea?

[carlo von lynX <lynX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 11:20:02PM +0200, Aymeric Vitte wrote:
> First question is: why do you want people to pay for relays? That's
> probably one of the best way to deanonymize you.

Because I want to destroy the necessity for telcos to identify my
mobile phone as I walk down the street. So if paying for relays is
a way to deanonymize myself, at least it would be the second best.
But maybe there is a way to get it right, and I don't want to give
up hope on saving humanity from digital doom as yet.

> Second is: why apparently you only envision to use/scale the Tor
> network, and not the Tor protocol for a P2P system? Knowing that the
> Tor network is absolutely not designed at all for P2P capabilities,
> whether it's about torrents, telephony, etc

Looks like you understood something like the opposite of what I meant.

> Corollary is: Peersm project ([1],[2]), a P2P system using the Tor
> protocol (and, marginally, the Tor network for non P2P exchanges, ie
> web fetching)
> 
> Please see comments below.
> 
> [1] http://www.peersm.com

This website does not work. Is it trying to require Javascript?

> [2] https://github.com/Ayms/node-Tor#anonymous-serverless-p2p-inside-browsers---peersm-specs

Tor in Javascript? Thank you, but this is totally off-topic.
Have you looked at the law proposal? It is about making a
strong relay node network, not a P2P network.

> Why your physical area? To give a chance to locate where you are?

The first hop knows where you are. The third hop doesn't.
With a thousand relays just in one city it should be
reasonably difficult to trace where your packets went.

> The latency of the Tor network is different from the latency of a
> P2P system using the Tor protocol

Yes, that's why P2P is out of the question here.

> Just replace it with a DHT based routing system where references to
> peers are ephemeral and the distance to peers have nothing to do
> with your location but allows you to detect compromised ones.

Sounds like GNUnet, except for the word "just" that alludes to
something being simple which I know it isn't.

> And make sure that the peers can not freeride (unlike the bittorrent
> protocol [3]), ie they must participate to the common P2P effort,
> which is the case for peersm concepts since you get referenced by
> others

Not applicable.

> I don't think it needs a lot of research, everything is already
> there (then please feel free to redirect EC to peersm).

I can imagine telcos being enthusiastic at the idea that phone
calls are relayed down from antennas to mobile phones just to
come back to the antenna because the mobile phone is merely
acting as a P2P relay... reasonable use of wireless bandwidth.
Not talking of the benefits in latency.


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