Re: [pygame] java pygame

[Terry Hancock <hancock@anansispaceworks.com>]

On Friday 17 January 2003 11:59 am, Edward Povazan wrote:
> Of course, this is me, who is targeting naive users, who just want to
> click and play.

That's me too.  Some of those browser warning messages are pretty scary -- 
look at what you get for signed applets or self-signed site certificates. 
They make it sound worse than it is, and lots of people don't know enough to 
tell, so they just "play it safe", and you've lost them.  :-(

Especially a problem for teens who are using their parents' computer or 
school or library facilities.  They probably can't install stuff by policy.

> I am starting to think of Java as a 'platform' in the same way as Windows,
> OSX, linux etc. Now if I could only find an open source sound mixer for java
> 1.1 VMs ....

I think this is the correct way to think about it. Java is not a "universal 
platform", but it can be an important port.  I would really like to see a 
native/java transparent Python environment -- then you could develop applets 
without worrying whether they have a JVM or a plugin under them.

Shawn <shawnwheatley at mailcan.com>:
> > Maybe an option like Sun's WebStart (I think that's what it's called).  A
> > Jython/Java plugin that can download a python runtime and the code you
> > want to execute.  The WebStart looks to see what has changed since the
> > last time you ran it and downloads only the changed files... everything
> > else would stay the same.
> >
> > Of course, I don't know what kind of work this would require.  But it's
> > another solution.

Really, guys, please read my summary http://www.narya.net/client_html ,
especially the "background" section. :-D

This question is addressed with some of the others in this thread -- we had 
this discussion on comp.lang.python about 2-3 months ago, and I summarized my 
findings, relevant websites and papers, etc.  There's even a couple of cute 
diagrams, and a concept for Zope integration (for those whose use it).

I plan to implement the PyUI renderer and Zapplet (at least the first version 
-- the 2nd diagram shows something like your Web Start reference, but it's 
kind of a bear).

If someone thinks that a native python applet plugin for Netscape is worth 
their time to implement, however, it would make Zapplet 2 possible, and I 
would proceed with it. I have decided, though, that it would be too hard for 
me to implement such a plugin system myself.  It would also take a fairly 
concerted effort for it to get off the ground and get used as a platform.

My appraisal:
Jython+Java+AWT+PyUI environment port (just a renderer):
~ 200-300 lines of Python.
This ought to take me a weekend once I get started.

Python applet plugin:
3000+ lines of C (or C++?) (new code) + lots of refactoring ???
YMMV -- you may know better starting places, or be much better at C code than 
I am.  This would take me months, maybe somebody else is better at it?

JyGame  (Java PyGame for Jython):
???? lines of Java (ask Edward Povazan for how much?).  I don't really know 
how big this is, but I suspect it's going to be a few 1000 lines of code.  I 
also don't know Java well at all, so I'd be pretty lost. I'm okay with Jython 
though, if and when it comes to that, and I will be happy to help there, if I 
can (although I don't really see a PyGame port as essential for my work, it 
would add a lot of new possibilities).

Either Python applets or "JyGame" would make a "Flash-killer" possible, as 
someone mentioned earlier in thread.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com

"Some things are too important to be taken seriously"
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