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Re: [pygame] TMX support in pygame



I do understandÂMiriam. I know there have to be a point where you stop reinventing the wheel. I'm just worried that majority all wannabe gamedev goes to tools that allow create games without much knowledge on how stuff works.

Call me old fashioned but I just worried that that more and more peoples using tools and we are loosing low level skills.

That's why I would prefer to keep Pygame clean from such things. This is purely personal but as a mentioned in my previous email, maintenance of whole package is also important IMO.

Cheers
Bart


On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:56 PM, Miriam English <mim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Bartoz,

I can understand what you mean, but in my experience if people have more tools they actually tend to learn different things and solve higher-level problems rather than cease to be challenged.

I used to love programming in assembly code, directly manipulating registers in the CPU and peripheral chips, and I have great nostalgia for those days, but why would I re-invent so many superb tools anymore when other people have done a much better job than I could in so many areas? I don't stop learning; I just move on to learning more complex things that might have been too difficult for me before.

There will always be a place for low-level programming. That's one of the great things, for example, with the Raspberry Pi -- it gets people back in touch with experimenting again (especially when coupled with things like pygame), but I think that's a result of exposing the inner workings. (The big mistake I believe a lot of developers make, especially in proprietary systems, is hiding the guts so people can't fiddle with them, and are forced to use only a simplified glossy exterior.)

If people have tools to handle physics, manipulate sprites and tiles, and to buffer sounds then I don't believe they necessarily become lazy; it can free them up to tackle more complex problems that previously were too hard.

Perhaps some people who have a low threshold of frustration will be attracted to use pygame where before they might have thought it too much effort for too little result. That encouragement can help to instill patience in those people.

Best wishes,

    - Miriam


On 30/09/14 20:50, Bartosz Debski wrote:
HI Guys,

Please don't get me wrong here but if Pygame will include PyTMX it will
also endorse Tiled as a supported tool ?

I personally I'm slightly against putting such things into Pygame.
Reason being is that peoples (new or not in pygame community) will not
try develop own things or stop to innovate in this field. I'm not saying
those tools are bad in any way but giving more and more tools will make
peoples use the tools and not to come up with own solutions. This leads
long term to attitude and mindset for game creations like Game Maker
style or Unity where eventually there will be no need for any dev skills
to create a game. Creating abstraction layers for peoples to use is
great if you have little development skills but also harms as you are
not trying to understand the mechanics of how stuff works.

Apologies for this random rant and please do not take this personally
but would leave it outside Pygame package.

Cheers
Bart

On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:17 AM, diliup gabadamudalige
<diliupg@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:diliupg@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

  This is great! There should be more people like you.
  I sincerely hope that the maintainers will take the initiative and
  do the needful.
  Looking forward to a new version of Pygame!

  On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 12:30 AM, Leif Theden <leif.theden@xxxxxxxxx
  <mailto:leif.theden@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

    Thanks for the replay. Sorry we weren't able to chat before the
    game jam, but I'm in #pygame pretty often, under the nickname
    bitcraft.

    There are a few projects already using pytmx/pyscroll, and I'll
    include a few that I know about.

    https://github.com/justinmeister/PyTMX-Examples
    http://www.reddit.com/r/pygame/comments/27yzex/getting_started_with_pytmx_making_collideable/
    https://github.com/bitcraft/pyscroll/tree/master/tutorial/code

    http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-29/?action="">preview&uid=7968
    https://github.com/justinmeister/The-Stolen-Crown-RPG
    https://github.com/wkmanire/Platakart
    https://github.com/wkmanire/PyMunkTMX
    https://github.com/bitcraft/pyweek18
    https://github.com/fish-face/door-restorer
    https://github.com/jamesalbert/FinalTrigger

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK8Mf-pE1gU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74q1t8UPAes

    The quadtree functions might be useful as a part of the sprite
    module. It offers reasonably quick collision checking for rects
    and rect like objects.

    I can contact the people who have used pytmx/pyscroll in the
    past and see if the api is adequate.

    I realize that pygame hasn't had a release in a while. If the
    maintainers of pygame would be willing to include these
    libraries, that alone should be enough to publish another
    official release. If I could get positive feedback and the
    backing of the maintainers, then I don't really mind putting in
    the extra effort for documentation and testing.

    Pygame is being embraced by the rasberrypi community, and I
    think it would reflect well on pygame if that community had more
    options for making games on that platform.

    On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:59 AM, Renà Dudfield <renesd@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:renesd@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

      Hello,

      Very cool. This has been something many people have asked
      for before :)

       * Do you know of any other games or examples that are
        using them? We'll need at least one example to include
        with pygame, and it would be nice if other people can
        try out the API and give feedback.
       * I think 2.7+ is fine at this point, but it's usually
        easy to port to 2.4/2.6+.
       * We'll need to figure out where internal parts like
        Quadtree go. Do we keep them private or make them
        publicly available?
       * For testing, it would be good if at least every method
        is tested. 100% coverage tested is not necessary but nice.
       * There needs to be documentation for every public method.
       * The other documentation that would be good is a tutorial
        in how to use it.

      Maybe we could organise a mini sprint to discuss things?
      Otherwise we can go over each part on the mailing list.

      I'll be at this game jam thing on Saturday doing pygame
      things, and perhaps we can meet then on irc to discuss? If
      you want to do this, then I could work on a little game
      using your libraries to get a feel for them then too.
      http://www.berlinminijam.de/2014/09/next-game-jam-announcement-september.html

      It's probably a good idea to discuss the API, and get
      feedback with a few people on how it could be made more
      usable before we go ahead and write lots of
      documentation/tests/etc for it.

      Of course, pygame hasn't done a release for a while. So you
      may want to take that into consideration before embarking on
      all this work.



      cu.





      On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Leif Theden
      <leif.theden@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:leif.theden@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

        Any specific reason for targeting python 2.4?... It's
        ten years old. Currently, it is tested again 2.7 and
        3.3, but I can't think of any reasons why 2.6 wouldn't
        work. As for 2.4, there might be some issues with the
        generator syntax. Its been a long time since I've used 2.4.

        On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 6:06 AM, Jason Marshall
        <jmm0@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jmm0@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

          How difficult would it be to make the code
          compatible with Python 2.4+?

          Jason


          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          *From: * Jason Marshall <jmm0@xxxxxxxxx
          <mailto:jmm0@xxxxxxxxx>>;
          *To: * pygame-users@xxxxxxxx
          <mailto:pygame-users@xxxxxxxx>
          <pygame-users@xxxxxxxx <mailto:pygame-users@xxxxxxxx>>;
          *Subject: * Re: [pygame] TMX support in pygame
          *Sent: * Thu, Sep 18, 2014 11:48:26 AM

          I haven't used your tools myself, but if they really
          work well and have a tutorial and good
          documentation, then I'm in favor of adding them.
          Batteries included!

          Thanks,
          Jason

          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          *From:* Leif Theden <leif.theden@xxxxxxxxx
          <mailto:leif.theden@xxxxxxxxx>>
          *To:* pygame-users@xxxxxxxx
          <mailto:pygame-users@xxxxxxxx>
          *Sent:* Monday, September 15, 2014 11:51 AM
          *Subject:* [pygame] TMX support in pygame

          Hello everyone!

          I'm a long time user of pygame and active member of
          #pygame under the handle bitcraft. I help many
          people who stumble into the channel to build their
          first game in pygame. I've also released and
          maintain a couple small libraries PyTMX and Pyscroll
          to help new users develop using the Tiled Map Editor.

          https://github.com/bitcraft/PyTMX
          https://github.com/bitcraft/pyscroll


          The Tiled Map Editor is widely known in the indie
          game community and many popular game development
          ecosystems include out-of-the-box support for it,
          including pyglet, cocos2d-x, allegro5, libgdx, and
          many others.

          I am confident that PyGame will benefit from a TMX
          loader that it is integrated into the core and
          documented on pygame.org <http://pygame.org/>.


          As maintainer of PyTMX and pyscroll, I would like to
          nominate these projects to be integrated into the
          pygame core. They both support python 2.7 and 3.3+
          and I have tried to make them feel like native
          pygame libraries; and they even work well with the
          spite/group concept. The only library that it
          depends on outside of the python standard lib is the
          six module.

          There are of other loaders available as well, and I
          will list them as well for the consideration of the
          pygame core developers. My apologies if I have
          overlooked another tiled TMX map format project.

          http://www.pygame.org/project/1158/
          http://pytmxlib.readthedocs.org/en/v0.1.0/
          https://bitbucket.org/r1chardj0n3s/pygame-tutorial/src/a383dd24790d/tmx.py
          https://github.com/renfredxh/tmx



          Thank you everyone and I look forward to hearing
          your comments.








  --
  Diliup Gabadamudalige

  http://www.diliupg.com
  http://soft.diliupg.com/

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