Re: Unified Front... [was Re: [seul-edu] M$ Audits (shortened)]

["Stephen C. Daukas" <stephen@daukas.com>]

At 11:46 AM 4/24/2002, Doug wrote:
>"Stephen C. Daukas" wrote:
>
> > Imagine a School Board meeting considering the motion of "going
> > Linux".  Imagine someone in the audience asking the simple question of
> > "does what we run today work on what you are proposing?".  That is the sort
> > of question you can't easily redirect because the inference is "are we
> > throwing away our prior investment if we adopt your approach?"  Add to this
> > concern the uncertainty of Linux (which vendor), the whispered advice from
> > those who know, or think they know, what GNU/Linux/Open Source is all
> > about, and you have the biggest case of the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt)
> > factor imaginable!  This usually translates into no action - status quo -
> > the marketing strategy of the market leader.
> >
>
>I'd imagine that you wouldn't try to get them to commit to converting to Linux
>completely at the first school board meeting.

Nor would I, but the analogy still remains.  I commented in another thread 
as to what inspired this analogy, but simply stated, you can only go so far 
without permission - so you must seek it at some point.

> > So how do we take advantage of the situation?  (Or, how do we get major
> > Linux vendors to take advantage of the situation?)
>
>Don't plan on the vendors doing this.  It's best done at the grass roots.  Of
>course, we should try to provide the folks at the grass roots with the 
>best tools
>and arguments we can.

Actually, Red Hat is extremely interested in this.  I have had a long 
conversations with the gentleman who is in charge of this part of their 
business, and I still use email with him.  (He was surprised I got to him 
in the first place, but I had used a former title, as well as describing 
what my new position was, so the admin hooked me up with him!)  He has told 
me that there are a number of web sites dedicated to Linux in education 
(how I found out about SEUL-EDU, actually), and that Red Hat is interested 
working on a K-12 "thing", but they don't know what that "thing" looks like 
yet.

The problem he noted was that the education community profile is very 
different depending on where a given district is on the technology 
spectrum, what the grade levels are, and that none of the Linux companies 
have the resources to define each point on that spectrum.  They are hoping 
to be told, as near as I can tell, what they should put together for a 
given grade (almost like a curriculum framework) from those in the 
trenches.  So, at least one vendor is hoping the grass roots can define 
what they need so it can provide a solution.  Could be nice if it worked 
out that way.

> > I think it is pretty clear that Star Office is the productivity app of
> > choice, even though it has an occasional glitch with M$.  Beyond that,
> > everyone seems to have their favorite browser, favorite email client, and
> > so on.  Dare I bring up gnome versus KDE?  ;-)
>
>This isn't a problem.  Sure, there are lots of choices.  But the school or 
>school
>district can review them and choose one to implement.  That's no different 
>than
>having a textbook review committee decide on what texts to use in teaching
>beginning algebra.

I disagree based on an extrapolation from my experiences in corporate 
America...  No one likes to break ground, nor do they like to stray too far 
from a path that has already been blazed.  My guess is that among the first 
few questions asked by someone involved with the process who represents 
"administration" would be "what have other districts done."  One reason, I 
suspect, that I have noticed so many districts using the same textbooks, to 
use your analogy.

> > So, my point in all this goes something like this:
> >
> > How do we overcome issues like:
> >      the market dominance of M$ productivity apps (OK - S.O. it is)
> >      the lack of non M$-based educational software
> >      the ability to attract and retain Linux/UNIX Sys Admin talent
> >      the multiple Linux offerings and the multiple "standard" apps
> >      the contract requirements some schools have with Apple
> >
>
>These are all valid questions.  As I said above about the multiple apps and
>distros, this is just a matter of investigation and choice.  The lack of non
>MS-based educational software is more of a concern.  Our Educational 
>Applications
>Index may address some of that, but there are still some areas that lack
>software.  Any investigation of changing wholesale to Linux would have to
>identify non-Linux apps that have to run and would then look into running them
>via Wine and WineX, or one of the Macintosh emulators.  I should mention that
>MetaCard and Runtime Revolution offer authoring systems that will read 
>Macintosh
>HyperCard stacks, so those should be convertible to Linux.

The only problem here is that WINE doesn't work well for a lot of 
applications, and doesn't do well at all with win2k applications.   WINE 
isn't really an emulator - it is more of a compatibility layer because it 
only deals with the win32 API and win3.x interfaces.  More than 1000 
applications are listed in WINE's database, but _many_ of them are listed 
as only being partially operational.

Bochs is PC-emulation software that can run DOS, Minix 2.0, and Win 95 
applications, but only 8  M$ applications are listed (mostly '97 level 
software).  Bochs was just purchased by MandrakeSoft, so it may be going 
Open Source.  (Maybe they plan on providing a packaged alternative?)

Then you have things like Plex86, which may be an open source alternative 
to VMware, but these solutions still require you to own M$ in the first place.

For MAC, ARDI seems to be among the better packages.  They list hundreds of 
MAC applications, most coded green or yellow (meaning fully useable or 
largely useable).

In the end, it still comes down to a willingness to blaze a trail...

> > What is the "packaged" solution that can be presented to a School District
> > that will give them relief from M$ fees, assure them that the Linux
> > "solution" will meet or exceed the current installed "solution", relieve
> > the FUD factor associated with "choosing the wrong Linux horse", and give
> > assurance that they can fend off the criticisms from the parents who are
> > self proclaimed technology experts, as well as from those who actually are?
>
>There are no packaged solutions, nor should there be.

Seems like you and I should agree to disagree.  I'm not trying to be 
difficult here, I'm just looking for the following (to paraphrase from the 
SEUL-EDU purpose):

...what programs should be found, ported, or developed for Linux to make it 
useable by teachers; what programs are desired by home users for personal 
education of themselves and their
children; and what courseware is and should be available for student use in
schools.

This is what I mean by a "packaged" solution - an identified list that 
satisfies the above goals.  If we could do that, then we would be in a much 
better position to support (via grass roots efforts) a district willing to 
blaze the trail.

>   The school district needs
>to do a reasoned analysis before deciding to undertake such a large-scale
>conversion.

But if there were such a "packaged" offering, it would make their lives a 
hell of a lot easier!

>As for fending off the criticism of technophilic parents and other
>self-perceived experts, it's probably best to draw them into the analysis 
>at the
>beginning and let them see for themselves what the benefits are.  If they just
>have axes to grind and won't consider any option other than Microsoft (or 
>Apple),
>that will quickly be noticed by others doing the analysis.

Which may derail the whole effort, depending on who they are, because all 
we have as arrows in our quivers is opinions.  Depending on the various 
participant's standing in the community the "wrong" opinion, or the 
"uninformed" opinion, may prevail...  If there was a district out there 
that had already made the transition, then we have something other than 
opinions!

> > Once we think we have that solved, and once we think we have a solid
> > understanding of the migration issues, we could try to support those
> > willing to try to get their schools to move.  We could also approach a
> > vendor to see if they are willing to join in...
>
>As I say, don't depend on a vendor for this.  We've got some good starts 
>already
>with K12LTSP and Blue Linux.

Don't count out the vendors.  If they see an opportunity to gain market 
share, they'll jump.
They are already looking at this very issue...  Going back to my definition 
of a "packaged" solution, if we could define one, I think at least one 
vendor would be interested.

Steve